Ann Widdecombe on the trans debate

[RoyalCorgi]

It's short, but to the point:

www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/ann-widdecombe/1303420/transgender-debate-JK-Rowling

It’s an interesting insight into character though. People who believe that individuals are either always entirely right, or always entirely wrong (over decades and a myriad of topics), aren’t going to be able to exert nuance in their own opinions or beliefs, or ever change their own minds.
That explains a lot.

Yes, the line we're getting these days is that people must have an unbroken record of 100% pure views. And yet when Damian Barr comes along suddenly anything, even quite foul comments, can be forgiven.

That Mitchell & Webb sketch where they're dressed as Nazis and ask 'are we the bad guys?' comes to mind.

When we find yourself agreeing with Widdicombe andTebbit, maybe it's time to if not change your stance, then to at least reflect on it. None of us can rest on our laurels and assume our rightousness.

*we find ourselves

When we find yourself agreeing with Widdicombe andTebbit, maybe it's time to if not change your stance, then to at least reflect on it. None of us can rest on our laurels and assume our rightousness

True - but in that sketch, it wasn't the people, it was the actions that gives them pause.

If we were suddenly acting in a right wing manner - calling for corporal punishment, or women to stay at home then sure, ask yourself if you're the baddies. Happening to like the same water-colours as Hitler? Probably not an issue.

At school we were always taught to consider the source when reading information, to decide how reliable it was. The same person might be reliable for some things, and not for others. I'd believe my doctor about my blood test results, but wouldn't put any extra weight on their opinion on cake baking for instance. Same thing here. Just because someone's wrong about some things, doesn't meant they're wrong about everything, just means you should examine each of their opinions before you judge that opinion, not that you should throw all their opinions out.

@AntsInPenzance

That Mitchell & Webb sketch where they're dressed as Nazis and ask 'are we the bad guys?' comes to mind.

When we find yourself agreeing with Widdicombe andTebbit, maybe it's time to if not change your stance, then to at least reflect on it. None of us can rest on our laurels and assume our rightousness.

If Widdecombe and Tebbit said the sky was blue and water was wet would you feel the need to reconsider your opinion on sky and water?

And that Ants is exactly the type of argument that helps me make sense of the words 'Prime Minister Johnson' and 'President Trump'.

Here's some choice quotes from AW's contributions to the debate on the GRA bill

"The Bill is appalling. It is a muddle and a quagmire. It is nonsense."

"Elements of the Bill are farcical, including not providing information about the past. If one has a sex change, everyone from the past knows about it."

"It is nonsense to try to throw a veil of secrecy, enshrined in law, over the past, suggesting that one can rewrite it or wipe it out."

"Changes in life do not mean that the past is rewritten. A marriage can be dissolved but nobody says that it did not exist, that that period of one's life, however unhappy or difficult, did not happen. Rewriting history causes many of the measure's problems."

"In our desire to rectify a wrong, we should not create more wrongs in its place."

I rarely agree with much, if anything, AW says but she knew back then the GRA was not a good bill, and her comments from the debate are spot on.

Link to Hansard

That Mitchell & Webb sketch where they're dressed as Nazis and ask 'are we the bad guys?
Ants

Never heard of Mitchell and Webb but you have dropped a Godwin law fail. Chucking Nazis into a conversation for zero reason? Not impressed. By the way? As many other posters have stated, it's possible to agree with someone on one discrete item without agreeing with every single political position they have ever held. Perhaps you should contemplate that? And while you are at it? Consider this. The Nazis believed in complete state control. They were totalitarians. Conservatives believe in a small state and individual freedom. Or at least they used to.

www.theguardian.com/books/2017/sep/01/how-not-to-be-a-boy-by-robert-webb-review Robert Webb is an interesting chap who has also been in the pink news crosshairs for supporting feminists.
'Are we the baddies' is funny in the context of the nazi regime being categorically wrong because of all the genocide.

I'm sure the joke plays better with a more mature audience who doesn't imagine genocides every time someone disagrees with them.

I'm a lesbian and generally a fan of social democracy.
Politically I'm not in agreement with much of what Ann Widdecombe would want. I remember the things she did such as banning condoms in prisons.
However, she is charming and I would love to have tea and cakes with her.
I would also love to meet Ruth Davidson and Anna Soubry.
And sometimes I wonder why such interesting women find their niche within right wing parties and it leads me to think about how to make left wing spaces more welcoming to women who don't toe every party line.

Life would be a bit rubbish if we couldn't learn from one another, hey?

I’m another who disagrees with AW’s religious stance and many of her views. What I admire about her is her complete independence of thought. I can’t imagine that she has ever subscribed to a belief because it was fashionable.

I think, if people cut friendships because of one single thing they disagreed with, then it wouldn't be long before they had no friends left.
I usually find myself disagreeing with people like Piers Morgan and Ann Widdecombe, but on these issues they are just right.

Agree - as a pretty radical feminist, atheist, GC, lefty person I would find it really hard to find friends with exactly the same views as me, who I also liked in other ways eg sense of humour and shared interests.

I have two good friends who are quite devoted Christians, one who's an anti-vaccer, some Corbynistas, some who are pretty woo, several who are trans "allies" and can't see what the problem is, some who send their kids to private school, and so on. I disagree with these things and could tear them apart in a massive argument if I wanted to – and if someone wants to take me on and try and impose their views on me, I do argue.

But these are my colleagues, kids' friends' parents, people I share hobbies with and do stuff with whose company I enjoy because of other things. And they tolerate me and my views too. If they're the type to want to discuss it, we can respectfully debate and disagree, and if not, we can avoid the subject.

yes I agree with Anne Widdicome on this and piers morgan, but I also agree with JK Rowling and Germaine Greer and Julie Bindel etc.

Funnily enough, you cant just push everyone into a goodies or baddies box. People of left and right wing politics have common ground in some areas, and womens spaces are a cross political spectrum issue, like many issues are

Of course we agree with Ann Widdicome and Norman Tebbit and Piers Morgan that sex exists. Its been a fundamental fact for thousands of years. Our entire society is built around it, often to the detriment of one sex.

The earth is round, gravity exists. Look there's two more things we agree about! Am I right wing now?

Ew.

Can't stand Anne Widdicombe.

The fact that she happens to be right on one thing doesn't make me either reconsider my view on that one thing or like Anne Widdicombe.

@AntsInPenzance

That Mitchell & Webb sketch where they're dressed as Nazis and ask 'are we the bad guys?' comes to mind.

When we find yourself agreeing with Widdicombe andTebbit, maybe it's time to if not change your stance, then to at least reflect on it. None of us can rest on our laurels and assume our rightousness.

We discussed this on here a while ago.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3301684-Are-we-the-baddies

Most people said that they reflected on this quite a bit. The fact that women fighting to retain their rights are viewed by many as the 'baddies' is why it takes so many women so long to wake up to what's actually happening.