Just "came out" (as GC) to two friends...

[bluechameleon]

I didn't bring the subject up but when it did come up I went with it. Neither were particularly well informed on the subject but both seemed receptive to the GC POV. I was slightly concerned about Friend1 (gay male) but he was pretty supportive. They did comment on how much I knew about it so I think they thought I was slightly weird, but I feel generally it was positive and I did some good work furthering the cause. Are you all "out" to your friends?

Ach, Joss, Jess... Anyway, I bet their mums see things like this and the dick pix and wonders what the hell happened.

I discovered that wine doesn’t help when you’re unexpectedly talking to the fully Tw aws - a horrible evening of shouting and tears of frustration (mine) and I doubt we’ll ever speak of it again.... sadly one is involved in transing a child without the parents involvement at my kids school :-( Just trying to work out how to find out which organisation the school is getting their pshe materials from in case they have been completely stonewalled.

Alcohol is not a good starting point for the discussing.

I saw the most awful, aggressive behaviour from an (ex) friend of mine over this issue after a few drinks. I had not seen that side of him before and he was all 'what about the men?' and 'you women wanted equality, so you've brought it on yourselves'. I'd never realized what an unpleasant misogynist he was until then, but lots suddenly became clear.

I'm out to my whole family and most friends know that I'm gc, or at least suspect me of being a rabid feminist.

Let's face it, if you call yourself a feminist or talk about women's issues, the hardcore TRAs will have you down as a T* anyway.

Glad to hear so many others are also discussing it. I've discussed with family but not friends up until now. I should be more vocal about what I believe in.

I'm pretty 'out' which seems a really weird way to describe it, but I know what you mean.
Most of my friends have similar views and even those that aren't quite the same we have sufficient common ground to not fall out (I hope).
I guess I am fairly open with my views because this is what they generally have always been! It's been a shock to see the silencing of women for daring to stand up for biological reality.
I'm not interested in winning arguments or falling out with friends over this. It is incredibly important though for lots of reasons, so I will talk if it comes up. Although would agree it's an unsuitable topic with wine...I had a splutter at a meal with friends when one chap came out with 'someone is a woman if they say they are' but decided not to pursue it.
I'm probably better informed on some parts of this than some, but I have a teenage daughter and I worry that she or her friends are vulnerable to gender ideology and I'd like them to get through puberty as unscathed as possible. If a mature adult chooses the pathway to transition, then that is their choice but I don't think kids should be medicated or operated on.

Anyone know what happened with Jess Bradley?

I am 'out' to a few friends and my family. My real struggle at the moment is with DD who was totally GC and then went to uni and came back having drunk the kool aid to an extent that shocked me after her being so sensible and sure about it all. I no longer know how to talk about it to her and feel really sad that we couldn't even talk about JKR, she's got pretty entrenched in her position in a very short time. It's like watching her be brainwashed - really frightening. She's such a bright girl too and incredibly compassionate, and I think that's where this all stems from. It's like she closes her ears and quotes the ideology we used to discuss together eg suicide stats and won't consider the other position. I'm honestly utterly taken aback and would love any advice. At the moment I'm keeping out of it with her as don't want to srgue.
16 year old DS agrees with me and they did have a blazing argument about sex being binary the other night.

Help!

I have about 3 GC friends, that I know of. Most of my friends support trans rights. A couple are trans rights activists who abhor the aggressive language and threats being used. All are supportive of women.

I’ve shared a few articles (mainly around sports) on FB, mostly to tumbleweed, apart from one or two supportive comments. I’ve been spending a bit of time with two friends lately and we’ve got to chatting and they both share my GC views which is a huge relief!!

I’m sure that anyone who doesn’t do Twitter or Mumsnet won’t even realise it’s a thing. I don’t think either of them are Mners but one especially is a Twitter user and follows some GC accounts. It’s great to be able to talk freely about it all without having to censor ourselves. It feels a bit Handmaids Tale though.

My husband has tried explaining what’s happening to his family but because, like most of the general public, they don’t know much about it (they think “trans” means people with gender dysphoria or old-fashioned transsexuals) and because there’s so much to get through and because he gets himself so worked up about it, they just look at him like he’s a flat earther or an antivaxxer. I keep trying to tell him that ranting at them is not going to persuade anybody but he feels very strongly about it!

Ha! It's funny to read about feeling a bit embarrassed about knowing so much, I do too. When you talk about it for the first time what are the key points you find most useful to stick to? At the moment I think I'm just so fucked off about it I end up a bit ranty.

I don't know that 'coming out' is right to use. It's very depressing that people are feeling so intimidated. I felt as though I would be classed as trans-phobic but having a bit of a mouth on me, it was hard for me not to bring up the subject in my art group. All GC what a relief but interesting that they also had felt intimidated.

I found out through Twitter that a friend is GC as well, which is helpful. My sister asked "what is that whole JKR" thing about, so I explained and her response was "Have they all lost their mind, attacking a woman for stating facts?" So I explained a little more.
I also spoke to someone I volunteer with, but it was a bit "hush hush", as the organisation has quite a few woke people in charge of the volunteers.

On the other hand, I know someone who immediately piled on and wrote "f ts" on her FB page. She's someone who is very entrenched and would not accept a different opinion. I've muted her since.

Whenever I have brought it up in conversation pretty much everyone has been relieved to finally have the opportunity to discuss out loud!

One person deleted me from Facebook and another has been thoroughly stonewalled at work but everyone else has been aghast at the madness but worried about bringing it up themselves.

sadly one is involved in transing a child without the parents involvement at my kids school :-(

This person needs to reevaluate their actions - the ‘tool kits’ that advised this are now being withdrawn up and down the country because they (unsurprisingly) misrepresented the law. Your friend is breaking international human rights law, according to Baroness Nicholson!

ShinyFootball JB had slipped off the radar. Almost.

Btw, none of my friends, GC or otherwise have said anything rude, dismissive or unkind about a trans person. They might be pro-women, but they're not anti- trans.

My mum was of the be kind persuasion, believing tw were all of the Hayley Cropper type.
Which is a totally legit pov btw! Ordinary decent people, trans or not, are owed respect and courtesy.

But the whole JKR thing brought it home to her that the Choke On My Ladydick contingent will also be in the changing room when her preteen GDs are changing out of their swimsuits. And she doesnt think it right that me saying that on sm could threaten my job.

My mum, early 60s now, was an unmarried mother in Ireland in the 80s - not at all a comfortable place to be. She understands discrimination, and voicelessness. That's where she is coming from when she stands up for trans rights.

But at the same time she remembers the authority of the adherents to the Church. Not the church itself as such. But the vocal adherents which were much more proximate to her. Despite their own private opinions the denunciations were public. People had to walk in step. The ordinary person could privately recognise, the nuns were often cruel, the priests often predators, you can understand a boy and girl falling in love, but out loud they would say of women in my mothers' position The Little Hussy Brought It On Herself.

It's the mufflement and unspokenness that resonates with mum now. You cant have an ideology which puts itself beyond criticism, where the critics are ostracized.

I am not out. At all. But i'm not confident in arguing a point with anyone, I don't think I would remember all the facts etc at the time of discussion. But on Mumsnet when I read about GC I agree. And reading JKR's piece I agree. I just wish I could retain the information better 😂

At work I could never be 'out' because we have a transwoman in the department, who is very nice, i'd never want to create an uncomfortable situation for her or with her. She is relaxed, doesn't seem to be one of these activists types. Just another colleague trying to get on with her day.

I am not out. At all. But i'm not confident in arguing a point with anyone, I don't think I would remember all the facts etc at the time of discussion. But on Mumsnet when I read about GC I agree. And reading JKR's piece I agree. I just wish I could retain the information better 😂

At work I could never be 'out' because we have a transwoman in the department, who is very nice, i'd never want to create an uncomfortable situation for her or with her. She is relaxed, doesn't seem to be one of these activists types. Just another colleague trying to get on with her day.

DM and best friend are both gc so it’s nice to have people to rant to. Like others I’m scared of ranting too much to the other women in my friendship circle as I’m scared they just don’t know enough about it and it will be off-putting. They are definitely the type to be scared of saying the wrong thing due to being extremely well meaning people! I think if they knew more about it they would come round so slow and steady will hopefully win the race with them.

My DH couldn't agree with me more. I work in a very 'woke' stonewall backed organisation and daren't breathe a word among colleagues although I found one other GC woman there, we both know we are suffering from wrongthink lol. At least we have each other. I am in the LGBT group at work and really couldn't say a thing, I'd be lynched. It's been taken over by the T.

I don't tend to raise this in general company, with family & friends as I know many people don't know about this stuff and will think I am deranged. You almost couldn't make it up, In trying to raise it I have been looked at strangely and told I am on 'the wrong side of history'.

sangrias I know what you mean, I’m lucky that I’m one of those people who usually has a brain of mush that becomes very clear headed in a debate and suddenly remembers weird facts I didn’t even know I knew but my husband is the opposite, and will clam up in an argument and forget his own name!

What about if JKR is brought up just saying something like ‘well actually I’m still very supportive of her and don’t think she comes across as transphobic at all, I think if you read what she has to say you’d find her very compassionate towards trans people, I can send you some links if you’re interested’. And leave it at that?

I don't think it's mainstream enough, I had no idea about any of this until a few months ago. No one in my circle know anything about it, I've started talking to them and they all appear to agree but with not much interest.

I think this still true for lots of people, I would say mainly because of censorship. omission and distortion in the media. I remember I was out for the day with a female friend who I don't get to spend much time with and she started telling me about GC stuff and her support for it and how she was angry with the Labour Party of which she was a member because of this.

Even though she made some points that I now totally get and agree with, I simply didn't understand it then. I just thought she was making a fuss about a minor issue. It was only after this, quite gradually, that I started noticing things on Twitter, and somehow I came onto here.

I now totally get it and am livid about all the TRA extremism and the dogmatism and the no-platforming and the capture of so many institutions and the simple injustice of it all. I find the dismissal of vulnerable women's concerns and safety especially repugnant, as women in my own family and close friends have suffered from male violence - sexual, emotional and physical - and I know (also from my own childhood) how experience of abuse can have a lifelong effect and needs to be taken seriously.

But even for an intelligent politically aware person, it can take some time to become aware of the issues involved.

Becoming GC has certainly made me much more wary of mainstream "LGBT" culture, though I was already very anti-Pride etc, because of the commercialisation and the focus on identity politics at the expense of much more inportant issues, such as poverty and war and homelessness.

GCGayDad
I agree with all your post but why would Pride have anything to say about war? Poverty and homelessness probably affect gay people in certain ways, but war?