Is anyone else furious/deflated at the amount of energy this is taking up?

[Dhalmeup]

There is just so much more that needed doing already.

The abysmal rape/murder rates in most countries, baby girls being murdered after birth because of their sex, FGM, so many issues around the world we could be banding together and putting our energy towards.

And instead, we have found ourselves having to turn around and defend what we already bloody had! Constantly fighting fires and trying cling on to rights and spaces that we took for granted as already permanently ours.

I know we can concentrate on more than one thing at once and great work is still being done.

It’s just so frustrating that the TRAs are taking up so much of our time and I resent it because we shouldn’t have to! We shouldn’t have to be fighting these fires at all.

Sorry, just feeling defeated this evening. SM has been manic the last few days and what has happened to Allison’s fundraiser has just tipped me over the edge.

I do feel that we will win. I’m just angry that we need to fight at all.

Some great posts, thank you Floral.

I do agree that this is one of those issues that will be used as leverage to sow discord. There's a lot of obfuscation and noise. And there are so many strands to it. It can seem exhausting to think one has to take them all on at once.

I'm trying to remember that even little tiny steps can make a difference. And sometimes we work on the huge, central lies (the undermining of the Equality Act, the redefining of 'woman' to include males). Sometimes we make tiny chips at the edges - we withdraw our custom from Amazon, boost a friend, fling a tenner to a good cause.

I mean, how can we just abandon women to the machine? I can't let it happen.

honk honk.

It's an awful pity really.

The extreme wokists are giving all lefty sorts a bad name.
Setting back leftyish causes.

Most ordinary people are clustered around the centre, and most people can see the benefit of leftyish causes. Against discrimination, against social disorder, pro living wages and healthcare, and protecting the environment. Differences in policy and detail, sure, but your ordinary non activist, decent-sort voter is broadly pro all that.

But when people wake up to extreme Emperors New Clothes' type activists they will think, well, what else are these lefty sorts blinkered about?

I used to get stressed about this but not any more. I step away when I feel it is affecting my equilibrium. I can do that safe in the knowledge that others will carry on and I'm delighted that our numbers are increasing all the time. This is a war. Once mobilised, we have overwhelming numbers. They simply cannot win.

I agree with you OP. I am so angry that basically yet again abusive men are trying to force their views on women. I have so many other more important things to deal with and particularly right now.

BUT I am so fed up of this that I will keep going. Because the more those fucking shits try to tell me what I should accept, the more I am not going to accept that.

So fine, one person has complained about a crowdfunder - I am simply going to bypass that and try to pay the solicitor some funds directly. I know who I am, I can prove who I am, and I have funds.

But what to do about this site. Hell, fuck knows. I can no longer bear to be on here with the deletions directly relating to issues that are so important to me. I have been on here over 10 years, yet clearly I (or sorry my views supporting women) count for nothing.

I hear you all. And holy fuck, 7days I think you're onto something, and the others who replied and elaborated. Easy way to cause infighting in the west, an experiment in what mind fuckery is possible, and a Conservative wet dream to keep the feminists fighting amongst themselves. It's not even easily reversible either, the damage is done. Even if the source of it suddenly announced today it was them all along, that would be totally dismissed by the foot soldiers.

I've been silenced on social media - I have "friends" who I know would Dox me to my employer and I would lose my job for stating that a woman is an adult human female. I'm as careful as I can be on mumsnet. My employer has had one key employee infiltrated, and that's all it takes. I was furious to see a corporate social media post being used to condemn Glinner recently.

I get tired. I'm kinda still half on a sabbatical. The JKR thing and changes in law brought me back on here to look at what's being said about it all by the people who I consider sane.

One thing I'm learning from all of this is that I highly value calm, civil discussion, even on difficult subjects with somebody who disagrees strongly with me. I've got really intelligent "friends" whose best argument is shouting at me that "TRANS WOMEN ARE WOMEN!" and all that's done is succeed in shutting down debate with me in it. I really, really miss the opportunity to talk intelligently with somebody who disagrees with me. After all I'm a lefty Liberal in all other ways - I'm ripe for convincing to change sides. Indeed I want to be convinced to change sides; life would be much easier, and I'm so bloody tired of this BS fight.

I'm so stressed and exhausted by it all. It is definitely affecting my ongoing mental health - which wasn't that robust in the first place. Trying to spend less time on twitter and mumsnet and more time writing letters so at least my anger is being channelled in some way. But it is no fun. Have got into horrible debates on fb about this and have lost weeks of my life to total panic about losing my job as a result.

I am both angry and exhausted. The coercion, threats and suppression of free speech and debate, the male annexing of femaleness, the downright misogyny, have contributed to me taking up a more extreme position myself.
I now regard this as a war. I will no longer refer to men as women. They have the Y chromosome, they are men.

One of my oldest friends, now dead, was trans, and I wonder what conversations we would have had.... She wasn’t a AGP misogynistic arse, but thoughtful and courteous. I like to think we would have agreed to disagree..

Yes. Apart from the substantive issue, I see ordinary people displaying great cruelty and awfulness around it - the bullying, the contacting people demanding that they denounce their friends for wrongthink, the gloating at the misfortune of others, the threats, the ignorance and stupidity and cowardice. That makes me fear for humanity and where we're all heading right now. I have never known anything like it.

I wouldn’t feel so frustrated if I could openly share things on social media, or even in conversation with colleagues. The fact that I have to keep quiet (I’m sure I’d lose my career as a teacher, and my union wouldn’t support me) saps my energy.

Giggorata sorry you lost your friend. Do you know that she would have disagreed with you?
As a pp has said there are TW who see the importance of preserving the rights of natal women.

I'm sorry for the loss of your friend, too, Giggorata.

I don't see this fight as really to do with transrights, fwiw. It's about women's rights - certain men's rights advocates and/or misogynists are using the LGBT movement and trans issues to further anti-women politics. Oh, and the paedophiles who will try and infiltrate any movement they can, of course.

It has crystallised to me the need for women to have single sex spaces and exemptions, though.

Responding to OP. Yes, this has completely changed my life and I'm exhausted and haunted by it. Ten years ago, when I was approaching 50, I was looking forward to more of the lively lesbian social life I had then. Today we're for the most part underground and at least in the early days my partner and I were shunned and called names by former friends who were trans allies. That's begun to change and more and more lesbians are peaking and emerging from the madness.

The worst part of it is realising that hardly anyone in any position to protect us — protect women, protect children — has done their job. All have fallen. It has felt at times as if there's almost no one who can be trusted to stand up for 51% of the population. I look at those in high office, those who hold power, those who've stood by and said nothing, and I feel both furious and desperate.

And then there's the realisation that we're in a brave new world where Twitter and FB fuel the hatred and remain completely untouchable. 40 years ago I read The Female Eunuch and flinched slightly when Greer wrote 'Women have very little idea how much men hate them', but she was right and we're seeing it all now.

On the positive side, it means that I will have something to do — writing letters, campaigning, going to rallies and meeting up with other like-minded women — during my retirement. And with a bit of luck we'll see a massive rebirth of radical feminism which in this porn-fuelled, gender stereo-typed and increasingly fragmented society will give young women something to cling to.

I hope Germaine is reading these threads on here and on spinster, and knows how much she is vindicated by recent events. (And how much the Female Eunuch changed women's lives)

I think my friend would have been one of the trans people who would have supported women, because she wasn't narcissistic or exhibitionistic, as the AGP prominent minority are. I know she would have been pained by my recent decision that I will no longer support the fiction that men can become women. But I feel pushed too far, by the hatred, and attacks on so many fronts.

I agree with you, ScrimpshawTheSecond, that this fight is about women's rights, whatever the coat it wears.
The threat in the 80s was Patriarchy and nuclear annihilation, now it is free speech and the misogynistic eradication of women as a class.

I agree about the resurgence of radical feminism, Shedbuilder and hope that like minded women will continue to gather, organise and gain confidence and numbers.

If anyone is interested, here are a couple of links to some short pieces about the action at Greenham Common, which capture the atmosphere of that time:

I recall how we realised that Sisterhood is powerful and that women no longer had to abide by the rules which harmed them and the world. I hope we can recapture some of that collective steadfastness in this new war.

I count several Greenham Women as friends so that's all very familiar. Unfortunately one them is a full-on trans ally these days and regards me as a turncoat and traitor. Like a PP I find myself wondering why it is that she can't see what I see.

I’m going to have to stay off Twitter for a while, as I’m getting too sucked in. It does give the impression that we’re on the losing side, when in fact, most people seem to have the opinion as me.
In real life, I’ve spoken to a lot of friends, both male and female, who can see exactly what’s going on. Not one of them has agreed with TWAW.
I said to DH yesterday “You know the Women’s Institute...” and before I finished my sentence, he said “have they caved as well?” He’s been talking to his workmates, who all understand what’s happening now too.

We don’t have any children, and I go from feeling that I’ve missed out, to feeling thankful that they won’t have to grow up in this mess of a world.

I find myself wondering why it is that she can't see what I see.

This is what endlessly baffles me.

TRA Lobby: We need all the spaces, all the words, this will exclude some females from having any provision, obliterate female rights in law, damage female quality of life, open the door to more females being abused and afraid, and open a lot of loopholes for predators, plus loosen safeguarding in a way that endangers others and we don't care because all that matters is us. We want what we want, we want it now, death threats, rape threats, one hell of a lot of misogyny, swords and baseball bats, rage.

This is apparently good. Virtuous. Fine.

GC Women: We don't want to be subordinated as a sex class to males, by males, for males. We want to keep equal civil rights, we want the equal right to name our reality and identity and choose our own language, and we want to find solutions that work for everyone, not just some people at the expense of others.

This is apparently evil.

*GC Women: We don't want to be subordinated as a sex class to males, by males, for males. We want to keep equal civil rights, we want the equal right to name our reality and identity and choose our own language, and we want to find solutions that work for everyone, not just some people at the expense of others.

This is apparently evil.*

This is what kills me. It feels like I've finally discovered how much women are truly hated/disregarded, and by lots of other women as well. I just want to scream and scream and scream.

I don't feel I can escape it anywhere. I use Tumblr for following my favourite fandoms, I'm old enough now not to get sucked into the desperate need to belong to particular groups or find my own label to identify with, but if I was still in my late teens/early twenties I absolutely would be part of TWAW group think. It would take a massive amount of effort and self-confidence to stand against the tide of your peers at the moment. The message is clear, loud and repeated everywhere, divergance from the "one truth" means ostrasisation from the rest of the group.

It's pride month which features on the front page of every Tumblr account with the Trans flag as the background. Click the link and it takes you to a page which is entirely dedicated to black trans women. I would expect the focus this year to be on the black lives, however the entire emphasis is on black trans women only. There is no mention of black gay men or black trans men. The LGB part of pride is non-existent.

The more detransitioners and transsexuals speak out against what is being done to them the less successful the transitioning advocates will be in claiming they are the mainstream majority and dissenters opinions are "controversial".

Well the decision has been taken out of my hands now as I’m banned from Twitter.

I refused to delete my tweet as it was polite, not aimed at anyone and merely pointed out that Turner syndrome had nothing to do with the trans discussion re: are there more than two sex gametes. And that it was rude to shout ‘teed’ at the lady who had asked for her condition to not be conflated with trans issues.

I feel a bit relieved to be honest, will take a short break and be back to fight another day.

Wow, sorry to hear that

I'm tired, and trying not to take on more than I can handle.

Yes. I've been exhausted by this week too.
A low point was when we invited two of our dearest/oldest friends over for a BBQ (our first social event for months!) and we ended up in a debate about various political things in the press.

I said I'd been shocked by the abuse of JK Rowling and our (male) friend, who I've known for over 35 years, said "she'd brought it on herself". I was just gobsmacked. He is a highly educated man, very senior in a global business, regular Labour supporter, always seemed very caring and open-minded.
I asked if he'd read JKR's essay - he hadn't - and I asked him if he believed TWAW. He paused ever so slightly and then said "well, yes, I do think that actually". Even his wife (my friend) looked slightly shocked.
I'd had a bit too much wine and think I probably launched into a bit of a lecture - listing all the reasons why accepting TWAW and self-ID was a threat to women and children's rights and safety and talking about gender ID clinics/ the Tavistick programme etc.

It was clear he'd never really thought much about it. Kept saying it wasn't much an issue that would affect any of us in "real life" and that he thought there was a lot of "scaremongering" about .
His wife plays a lot of tennis and she was clearly up to speed about the issue of TW in sport and asked him if he thought that was fair. At this point I think he realised he was on shaky ground, but he still argued, yes, if they had 'become women' then they should be allowed to compete as women. Interestingly, when I asked them what "becoming a woman" entailed, both he and DH had assumed surgery and hormones over a lengthy time period.
We ended up changing the subject because I was just too shocked and angry.

Like others have said, I just can't believe others (especially men!) can't 'see' it and aren't interested in discussing it more as it doesn't affect them, as far as they're concerned.

Yes. I'm furious and exhausted. I can't believe we're back to treading such old ground as "men and women have different brains" and "women instinctively like pink". I can't believe we're facing such Orwellian new threats as the struggle to literally define ourselves as women. I hate that we live in this new world where we're fighting just to stand still.

@Itsrainingandpouring Tumblr is especially horrible this year, isn't it? I don't know how many trans pride days there actually are but "transgender day of visibility" seems to trend about five times a year over there. And now they've monopolised Pride as well. I haven't seen anything about lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, homophobia, ANYTHING this year. It's all been trans trans trans, with a veneer of BLM to try and justify it. The Tumblr teens are just so over us mainstream gays.