When your mum talks about other women, what is the narrative?

[Anoualler]

I know dads have their narratice also, but I'm interested in mums.

I have very little to do with mine for various reasons but when I do I'm struck by how disparaging she can be sometimes especially about older women and when she will be. For example, she'll talk about 'when I'm an old crow', 'When I'm a bat', 'I'm not a doddery old mare just yet'.

Because when I see her it is very brief and there are loooong gaps in between I don't generally try to explore this with her; time is short so I don't like to put her on the spot (about that or some of the other things she says). But it is strange and sad.

What's your mum like, positive? Encouraging? Fair? Down-beat? Sneering?

My mother died a long time ago, but she always prioritised women and had many many women friends. She had enormous compassion for the compromises women have to make in their lives and was always urging me to consider their perspective when I was less generous. She had a tough start in life and had a very matter of fact strength.

She was a second wave feminist who supported the refuge movement. She was nobody famous, but she was an inspiring woman to other women. I know this because scores of them have written to me and told me so after she died. I'm proud of her and glad to have known her. My own feminism has evolved so much as I've grown up and I wish I could tell her: she was right! She was right. Oh, I miss her!

My Mum is dead, but whenI was growing up I never heard her say anything negative about anyone. She always seemed to be able to find something positive to say about people, or she kept quiet. It wasn't until her last few years of life, when thanks to dementia she became quite disinhibited and would just say what she was thinking. I don't think she was trying to hurt people, but she would make rather blunt observations about people that I think she saw as factual observations rather than judgements. It was such a change, so quite a shock to everyone. It did make me wonder what it must have been like for her to have suppressed her feelings so much during most of her life, if her last years reflected how she had always felt. I don't condone being mean to people, but on reflection I am not sure that it is emotionally healthy to be quite as nice as my Mum always was.
She never accepted getting old though. I always used to phone after Sunday lunch and she would tell me that she and my Dad had given "the old ladies" a lift to Church when she was in her 80s herself!

My mum loves other women. She's constantly telling me all the latest news about all her friends, most of whom have daughters that I went to primary school with but I haven't seen since I was 11. She is very invested in their lives, and never says a bad word about any of them.

@kojolo

My mother died a long time ago, but she always prioritised women and had many many women friends. She had enormous compassion for the compromises women have to make in their lives and was always urging me to consider their perspective when I was less generous. She had a tough start in life and had a very matter of fact strength.

She was a second wave feminist who supported the refuge movement. She was nobody famous, but she was an inspiring woman to other women. I know this because scores of them have written to me and told me so after she died. I'm proud of her and glad to have known her. My own feminism has evolved so much as I've grown up and I wish I could tell her: she was right! She was right. Oh, I miss her!

She sounds wonderful. And made me think of many other lives raising wonderful women within the restrictions of their generation and place. To our ansisters 💗 🍻 💪🏼

My Mum is always positive but other women and I've never heard her criticise other women's appearances. My Mum is 69 and never ever have we had a negative discussion about someone's hair, weight, dress sense etc. I never ever talk about this sort of thing either and I don't like being in the company of people that do. As a result, everyone loves my Mum. She was diagnosed with a chronic illness when she was in her early twenties causing a lot of physical pain. She was always an empathetic woman before that but I think she never stops remembering the hidden challenges that many women are going through. Love her to bits.

My mum was incredibly calm and kind and had an enormous capacity for love. She was a dinner lady when I was little and all the kids loved her. She had to patiently teach my sister and I not to be jealous of the kids who wanted to be close to her.

I don’t recall her being rude about older women, she was very close with her own mother and visited her most days, especially in hospital at the end of Nan’s life.

Nan was quite different to mum, bawdy and proud and intolerant of other people’s nonsense. Wonderful though my mother was, I aspire to be more like NaN because Mum’s kindness made her a bit of a doormat at times.

Sadly, they both died of cancer within 6 weeks of each other 15 years ago. Mum had spent so much time caring for Nan she had put her own health needs on a back burner and hadn’t paid much attention to her own cancer symptoms returning.

My Nan was a fabulous crone, but mum never got that far.

Etinox 💗 🍻 💪🏼

Mother is a misogynist so didn't really learn about feminism until much much later.

Very little ambition for me as a woman, happy for me to not have much of an education, not drive, just wait to become a wife and mother.

Typical wife duties, letting hubby go down pub, not do any childcare or housework. That's the way men are.

Jealous of anything I achieved. Didn't like me wearing make up.

Nothing good to say about any women.

Still have confidence issues, but in a much better place now. Raising daughter and sons in a very different way.

Seems I've been lucky in my mother!

She's always been very comfortable in her own skin; strong female role models in her family, wonderfully joyful and supportive friendships with women who were just as ambitious as her for themselves and their families.

I've never noticed her being in any way particularly judgemental towards women as women. She's a lifelong republican and hates the Tories - equally scathing towards men and women in that context.

In fact, her only fault is a tendency to over praise women who bear any vague resemblance to this faulty daughter; their appearance, careers, ability to keep an elderly parent in utmost luxury ...

My mother died when I was 21 and what a poisonous piece she was. She never had anything positive to say about anyone, she used to pit me and my siblings against each other and would sit back with a triumphal expression if anything went wrong in our lives.
I'm glad that she never lived to see my DD being born given the things she used to say about my nephew. She was horrible.

Better to be dead than divorced, overweight, childless, wearing high heels, or with a body shape she doesn't approve of.

Anyone not wearing a very narrow range of chic grey and immaculate white garments of a The Kooples type vibe is whorish.

Jobs are frowned upon and women with children must not work.

If I said that ex-DP had made x she would comment on how nice it was of him to make the dinner for me.

Always asks my sister and me (and always has done) to help with household jobs, never our brothers or father.

Is never ever racist or homophobic and iaa a very tolerant and open-minded person except when it comes to women who she judges with a passion. Literally cannot see a woman in real life or in a photo/on TV without commenting on her looks, very bitchily.

My DM simultaneously thinks women should give up their jobs to look after their children and have jobs so they are financially independent of men.

Is there a feminist point to this thread? If not should it not be transferred to the relationships board ?

My mum has some conditions you must meet for her to like you. Sex isnt one of them but you MUST;

*Posess one or more of the following - Four legs, a tail, fur or feathers
*Have been produced by me or my brother
*Not be a dickhead (and to be fair these days more males fail this one than females).

It's a running joke in our family, whenever there's a female being interviewed on say A Graham Norton show type chat show. Mum will always bitch about them. From the crappy face lift to their general attitude. Never the men just the women. And like no one is safe including National Treasures.

Well in my mum's eyes a woman's worth is in her job,her husband,her looks, her possessions,her reputation,her home making skills all at the same time.

Which means I fail on every single level.

My mum who died recently aged 93 was a great friend to other women around her age and class, often divorced or, like her, widowed. Was very rarely catty but thought it a shame when women 'let themselves go'.
She didn't mean put on weight - she'd done that herself - but not caring about appearance at all, like never getting hair done or dressing 'nice'.
She certainly didn't mean 'sexy': always rather disaprooved of that, even for young gels! Was a great reader primarily of literary novels by women eg. Hilary Mantel, Elena Ferrante.

It’s quite simple. If they are thinner than her they are fun and then interesting and probably good people if they are fatter than her but not overweight they are probably boring and stupid and if they are overweight they are lazy, poor and to be avoided. I don’t know if it makes a difference but she’s roughly a 10.

What’s really interesting is if she knows someone who slips from one category to another. Amazing how clever and interesting you become after you’ve lost 6 stone.

Everything else is fine, wrinkles, grey hair, too much/too little jewellery, tattoos, all fairly positive.

Both my DM and MIL talk about people normally. They don't overly criticise or put them on a pedestal.

Just completely normal, average chit chat. They both have female friends.

They're also both bloody strong women and feminists so I think that helps.

I luffs them both and very lucky to have a great DM and MIL.

I think many women become bitter about numerous things in life.
More often than not, they put up with a lot in the home, I have noticed they definately bare the brunt of their children when they reach teenagedom. They sacrifice so much of their own lives to fulfill their family and often aren't appreciated for it.
Combine this with the fact that men often stray when women aren't always able to keep up the illusion of the 'perfect' wife and you have a woman who may end up full of resentment at her husband, children and life in general. The easiest targets of their frustrations are often women who trigger their insecurities, whether that be looks wise, career wise etc.
While it is easy for us to judge our Mothers attitudes towards women, I find it highly unlikely that they started life out that way. They just become jaded due to life experiences that leave them at the bottom of the pile due to the high expectations that everyone has in them.

If you'll indulge me going slightly off topic...

My DM grew up poor, council estate in a rough area, dropped out of school to have me at 17. My Father was 37 and abusive. When I was 3 she packed all of our things in a suitcase and left.

Later, in her 30s she was being bullied and sexually harassed in her male dominated job. She did her A levels at night school while saving money. When she was 35 she walked in one morning and told them to stick their job up their arse. Went to University (got a 1st), did her Masters and then did a PhD and became a University lecturer.

She is my absolute role model.

MIL is in her 70s and went to University (quite unusual then) to be a physio. When she came into a bit of inheritance she used it to set up her own private practice which was very successful. So successful that FIL took early retirement to look after the house and cook the evening meals.

Both wonderful, wonderful women

wheresmymojo how are their life stories reflected in their attitudes towards other women?

I don't think it is an as you get older you get thing with my dm.

She grew up in a very male dominated family and environment. So she finds it harder to relate to women.

Unless you're a close friend who has been through a big event in her life. She gravitates towards males as friends.

While it is easy for us to judge our Mothers attitudes towards women

I judge my mother because she deserves to be judged. Because she thinks she's better than a lot other women because she's a proper lady. Because it's all about what other people think, optics and reputation. And it's not as easy as you think since the judgement came with the realisation that 1. I was abused and 2. I would never be good enough so I might just as well stop trying.

My mum always said that she preferred men to women because they were much more interesting to talk to.
She could, and should have held a career as she had the drive and intelligence, but spent her life supporting my Dads career.
Sad in a way.