When your mum talks about other women, what is the narrative?

[Anoualler]

I know dads have their narratice also, but I'm interested in mums.

I have very little to do with mine for various reasons but when I do I'm struck by how disparaging she can be sometimes especially about older women and when she will be. For example, she'll talk about 'when I'm an old crow', 'When I'm a bat', 'I'm not a doddery old mare just yet'.

Because when I see her it is very brief and there are loooong gaps in between I don't generally try to explore this with her; time is short so I don't like to put her on the spot (about that or some of the other things she says). But it is strange and sad.

What's your mum like, positive? Encouraging? Fair? Down-beat? Sneering?

My Mum has lots of good female friendships and a good respect for women in general. She made her way in a male dominated career at a time of high sexism and I'm sure thinks that there's nothing a man could do that a woman couldn't (apart from biological things). I would say she's a feminist in what she did and how she raised me.
However she does have blind spots and I don't think would describe herself as a feminist. For example in response to #MeToo she took the line that women could stand up for themeselves a bit more and actresses had a choice not to sleep with people for parts etc. I also heard her speak very disparagingly about Dianna Abbott (mainly for who she's slept with) and she wouldn't examine why she was harsher on her as a woman than men who behave similarly. I think she's a product of her incredibly sexist time where individual women had to prove themeselves on their own merits and she doesn't think much of solidarity/campaigning and systemic injustices etc.
My MIL on the other hand absolutely hates women. She has an obvious and very real problem with them and said she prayed in tears every time she was pregnant that the child wouldn't be a girl as girls are so horrible (she had three boys). She's put me in some incredibly difficult situations and dynamics and has no female friends. A lot to unpack there but I'm just trying to keep some boundaries and not get drawn in.

Sneering, jealous and envious. Always spoke in a who do they think they are type of way. I remember telling her my aunt had taken up kayaking too (in her 70s) and as my mother did it maybe they should get together. She scoffed At her older sister doing this whereas I thought it was admirable! Her whole life has been spent thinking she’s better than everyone else or entitled to a better life or something. I try really hard to speak positively about myself (or at least not negatively) and others. I don’t have anything to do with her.

My mother describes women who are different to her (and are therefore a threat to her) as “strange”. When I ask her what’s strange about them she says, “They just are.”

Nasty.
Nothing nice or good to say.

My late mother had a huge number of women friends from a similar working class background to her own. She always had their backs - was even a shop steward for a while. She was very empathetic to them esp as many of them had husbands who were a waste of space. She was not, however, under any illusion that her loyalty would always be reciprocated - particularly in the workplace.

My mum is pretty positive about women.

My mother in law shocks me sometimes with her sexism. When #MeToo happened she said that sexual harassment in the workplace was just something women put up with in her day. When a teacher was in the news for running off with a teenage girl she blamed the girl for leading him on and getting him to stray from his wife! Ugh.

Somewhat ironic how this thread about women criticising other women... is full of criticisms about other women ... !

Oh gosh I'm now really appreciating what a wonderful example I have in my own mother.

Never judgemental, always encouraging. Never in my life have I heard her say anything bitchy.

She's observed (not in an unkind way) that some of her friends have decided to see themselves as old - she's not having any of it for herself and enjoys her life to the full.

Oh bloody hell, I need to text her now and tell her how marvellous she is.

Full of admiration for those doing good things, and even more compassionate and understanding as she gets older. I am trying to emulate her, not quite as broadminded

My mum has always, always been disparaging, wary and offensive about wonen who are single/divorced/been around a bit. She thinks they look desperate, hardened and all women ahould be aware that they're ready to snatch your man. She also warned me if your OH is having an affair 'look to your best friend'

My mum has funny little things she has a bee in her bonnet about, usually about hair length and the tightness of weather ladies dresses although it is often used on me in a mildly disapproving tone...

I am not confident in my appearance and neither is she which is probably where it comes from. The trouble is I find myself thinking it too so try to counter-act it by thinking/saying something positive, (great shoes, lovely tan etc) it’s still judgy but it’s a start.

Somewhat ironic how this thread about women criticising other women... is full of criticisms about other women ... !

I understand your point here, and I did think twice about posting. What I'm tring to understand is how much of this may have been generational, and if we think our children will think differently about the terminology we use, and if our experiences have informed how we measure our words.

...There are also some lovely posts about kinder language used, which has obviously had an impact. Essentially, everyone posting on here has noticed the language that the probably the single most important female in our lives uses, for better or for worse. It is significant.

Very very critical of other women, particularly teenage relatives, myself and my teenage friends. Thinking back to her comments about female school friends, according to her they were all either too fat/thin/tarty/prim and proper. I haven't spoken to her in years and don't intend to.

My mother loathes female confidence, and thinks all women should be smiley, shy and deferential. She is vitriolic about women who are unapologetic about their own authority or knowledge, and also towards women who ‘don’t make the most of themselves’ — long, grey hair and a lack of makeup kill her. She feels Mary Beard should have a nice short ‘ladylike’ perm, make up, court shoes and dress like the mother of the bride for tv appearances. And probably defer to male talking heads on tv.

There is a difference between a factual description of one persons behaviour, and using that to create a general rule about all women.

I don't think it is generational. My mother had an abusive childhood that should have taught her the value of empathy, she was taken from her family and raised by a single woman who effectively rescued her.
I think her 'mum' is the only women she has ever liked or loved, and even with her she finds it hard to say anything nice or positive about her. I learned next to nothing about her.
On the other hand I have 3 aunts and several friends of theirs who were lovely, very supportive women. They always hoped that the next generation of young women would have more independence and rights than they did.

I think mothers tend to bear the brunt of everyone's dissatisfaction & ire, as there tends to be an implicit feeling that mothers should be perfect specimens of imagined and idealised motherhood. I think mothers carry far more than fathers.

My mother is mostly of the 'if you can't say something nice, don't say anything' school of thought.

Although she does have some disparaging comments for snobs.

But in general I think she was always a positive role model. I have no recollection of her ever commenting negatively on another woman's appearance for example.

My mum has major issues with Mary Beard’s appearance too... I think she’s awesome so hopefully I’m not a carbon copy

Really interesting thread OP. My mum never makes comments about beauty or appearance other than when women appear scruffy or somehow as though they're not looking after themselves. She always notices what other women have to cope with- caring responsibilities, illness, family situation etc but never in a judgmental way. Always with admiration and a sense that she has been lucky in her life.

My mum is fabulous. Lots of female friends, very supportive of them, and of all my school friends now we’re adults.

I don’t think she ‘identifies’ as a feminist - but she is one! She teases me for being her “little women’s libber”, but she’s the first to point out sexism on TV, push me to achieve, and expect men to do their share around the house.

She does enjoy pointing out celebrity weight issues, but she does it to men too, so maybe not a sex issue.

Mine's of the can't say anything nice about anyone school, though more harshly critical of women. She has a dislike of men but speaks about them and to them in a deferential way. I feel sorry for her for that.

My teenage rebellion was to become a feminist

Xmil mostly nice but sometimes comments negatively about women's appearance. I've gently challenged that over the years and she does it less now.

Born in a miner's row in Central Scotland my mother's childhood was blighted by poverty and lack of opportunity. A witty intelligent women she was determined that her children's lives would be different. She always said you should never run yourself down as there would always be others only too ready to do it for you. As a working class woman she understood how hard life was for women;their lives circumscribed by discrimination and lack of opportunity. Supporting other women was a given .

Constant judgement about how women on TV look, along the lines of "well that dress does nothing for her"... It drives me mad! She gets very defensive when called out.

Mine can’t talk about any other woman without having something to say about their weight, clothing, makeup etc. It’s not always negative but she’s very much conditioned to judge women on their appearance and no matter how often my sister and I pull her up on it, she cannot seem to grasp why it’s a problem 🙄. In her mind women should “take pride” in their appearance and “make an effort” and she seems to give more weight to that than a woman’s achievements. She’s the sort of person who’ll say god, you’d think she’d do something with her hair when a sports woman is collecting a medal!