"Men menstruate. Some have even given birth. Women with penises and prominent larynxes walk the streets and use the ladies’ restroom." - NYT

[ShootsFruitAndLeaves]

I thought this was a joke

www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/opinion/trans-gender-language-trump.html

It turns out not to be.

It's by
' Devin Michelle Bunten'

No prizes for guessing what 'Michelle' used to be.

No doubt the NYT could also find a long line of, ahem, men who swear they are Elvis, or that the earth is flat, and give them all op-ed pieces.

"Men menstruate. Some have even given birth. Women with penises and prominent larynxes walk the streets and use the ladies’ restroom."

No, no they don't.

Usually I'd have a read but I'm too tired of this nonsense.

Whatever happened to the New York Times?

biologcal women menstruate, some have even given birth. Biological men with penises and prominent larynxes walk the streets and (invade) the ladies restroom

Men menstruate. Some have even given birth.

And their ability to participate equally in society is limited because they live in a country where access to birth control and paid maternity leave are not guaranteed. There used to be a name for people like that.

Only if you use the terms 'men' and 'women' as courtesy terms, therefore meaning nothing by them as an actual determiner of biological sex.

Which is fine unless you're trying to pretend that someone of the biologically male sex gave birth, or someone of the biologically female sex has a penis.

Either way, really, you're trying to enforce an agenda of beliefs that not everyone shares, and that's socially rather poor behaviour, to which many people are going to quietly think 'yeah, pull the other one'.

Another 'do as I say' article.

Ok, so I did read it. Good lord.

“Sex” is a biological framework, a panoply of possibility on its own. “Sex” needs precise words like “male” and “female” and “intersex” to describe the origins, components and functions of bodies. But we can’t maintain this precision if we use words about sex to describe gender — the social and political roles and possibilities we take on as women, as men, as something else or none of the above.

• I mean, IT'S TRANS RIGHTS ACTIVISTS WHO ARE USING SEX-RELATED WORDS TO DESCRIBE SOCIAL ROLES. JK Rowling, and all us other witches, know that it's really, really regressive to conflate sex and social roles. It is, in fact sexism. That's what we've been telling you.

That is to say: Stop using “male” and “female” to refer to men and women. In fact, stop using sex-based words to refer to people at all. They’re words for bodies, not for people with hearts and souls and minds.

• So 'gender' is to do with your soul, after all. Again, only those hopelessly mired in sexist stereotyping and weird reductive ideas about people could possibly think you can categorise your heart/soul/mind into 'male'; 'female' or 'non-binary.

Ms. Rowling’s linguistic wizardry cloaks her political goal, to assign gender purely by sex,

• No, pet, I'm pretty sure she doesn't want to 'assign' gender at all.

It should be noted that trans people do not generally believe sex is not real; indeed, discomfort with the sex of our bodies is a frequent challenge for trans people.

• Except that trans rights activists do try to claim that sex is socially constructed and that if someone claims to be male or female, that makes them so.

Short break for obligatory misrepresentation of people with DSDs.

Clarity in language provides social and linguistic accommodation for those of us traditionally denied both.

• Do they do this on purpose, do you think? Basically pulp language up in a blender and then complain that it has lost 'clarity'?

It’s impossible to dismantle the patriarchy while wearing a “pussy hat.”

• Shut up, women.

Rooting our social possibilities in our bodies is an abandonment of our humanity in favor of mere anatomy.
You are the ones insisting that to wear a dress someone has to say they're female.

Why did I read that?

It never seems to dawn that the more you obsessively and aggressively ram this stuff down people's throats, the more they are likely to lose all patience and tell you to fuck off.

How is it possible for anyone to read this nonsense and their eyes not roll so hard they become permanently lodged at the back of their socket?

Actually I just realised that by the standards of a lot of trans rights groups, Bunten's letter is unforgivably transphobic. What with saying that sex exists and implying that TW are male & TM are female. I wonder will anyone write in with a demand offer to re-educate Bunten.

With all the fuss over men who menstruate, I haven’t seen any campaigning to put sanitary disposal in men’s public toilets. Has there been any?

I don't know why, but I found that first paragraph quite upsetting. The aggressive way they state that 'its 2020' so people who are obviously male are going to be in women's spaces, I find it kind of triggering really

Ender come on. You're female, you can't get triggered, you don't have the working parts. It's not like females have real feelings you know, not like real people do.

All joking apart, I'm sorry This is vile, depressing, demoralising stuff and it's absolutely relentless.

they are likely to lose all patience and tell you to fuck off.

See that's what I want to write almost all the time in reply to tripe like this - stupid, narcissistic, insulting-to-the-intelligence lies and nonsense farted out by tiresome arses.

That is to say: Stop using “male” and “female” to refer to men and women. In fact, stop using sex-based words to refer to people at all. They’re words for bodies, not for people with hearts and souls and minds.

Fucking mind-body dualism again. Hearts and minds are your body ffs and I'm not religious so a soul is your individual consciousness, which is also part of your body. We are our bodies you nugget.

I really can't with this today...can I have now...?

discomfort with the sex of our bodies is a frequent challenge for trans people.

And complications following pregnancy and childbirth are the leading cause of death for girls between 15 and 19 in developing countries.

But please do go on about feeling 'discomfort'.

I know Ender - it’s a deliberate tactic. By stating it baldly as the case they make it sound like the norm and that any attempt to stop it happening Is the change

Where’s In reality iys their statement that is the change

@Moltenpink

With all the fuss over men who menstruate, I haven’t seen any campaigning to put sanitary disposal in men’s public toilets. Has there been any?

I’m not sure if I heard of a ‘bins for boys’ scheme somewhere

Short break for obligatory misrepresentation of people with DSDs.

Beautifully put.

"Men menstruate. Some have even given birth. Women with penises and prominent larynxes walk the streets and use the ladies’ restroom."

Only if you completely alter the dictionary definition of 'woman' and the understanding of thousands of years solely because it personally suits you to do so, and then scream hatred and bigotry at anyone saying they'll stick to reality, thanks.

Women's ability to counter and mitigate the oppression we suffer because of our biology relies on our having the language to accurately name it. And they can't have that now, can they?

That is to say: Stop using “male” and “female” to refer to men and women. In fact, stop using sex-based words to refer to people at all. They’re words for bodies, not for people with hearts and souls and minds.

Does this person think the way to combat racism is to demand that everyone pretends to be colour-blind, too?

If not, why not?

Oh yes. Because all that does is allow racism to rampage on, unchallenged. Funny, that.

With all the fuss over men who menstruate, I haven’t seen any campaigning to put sanitary disposal in men’s public toilets. Has there been any?

I'd imagine that whenever someone sensible thinks about doing that, they look at their liability insurance and wonder whether encouraging women into mens' toilets might land their company/institution with a horrible lawsuit when a woman gets sexually assaulted or raped.

This was an interesting quote:

“Stop using “male” and “female” to refer to men and women. In fact, stop using sex-based words to refer to people at all.”

I mean, interesting proposal but what are the new adjectival form of “men and boys” and “girls and women”?

I would personally rather trans people come up with their own words instead of stealing women’s - generally how it works - new concepts need new words not other way around.

“Stop using “male” and “female” to refer to men and women. In fact, stop using sex-based words to refer to people at all.”

Stop trying to control how I refer to men and women and myself and anyone else, as if this is any of your business. Go and look up the word 'boundaries'.

Some of you in UK may recall a BBC TVdocumentary about a trans man giving birth. However, courts have refused consent to him being entered as "father" on the baby's birth certificate.