Diversity week-do my dc need to know they're teachers ' sexuality?

[SistemaAddict]

Dd has been sent a video for the school diversity week. Teachers hold up pieces of paper with something about them written on it e.g. Gay and Proud, curly hair, Jamaican etc to give 3 examples. The information before the video states:

"...please watch the staff video to get a sense of how diverse our school is. We have such a range of different personalities, hair colour, opinions, genders, sexualities, religions, beliefs and colours that our school is a rich, welcoming diverse pot..."

I struggle to see how it's anyone's business what sexuality you are especially for a child to know that of their teacher. Surely sexuality is a private matter and not one to share with students? The video shows one teacher with a piece of paper saying gay and proud. They are not the only gay teacher in the school so it makes me wonder why they chose to say this about themselves but the other teachers chose something else about themselves. Another teacher declaring they have bipolar which seems something else that is not something to share with students. I get that they might be sharing so that students feel they have something in common with their teachers but it doesn't sit comfortably with me.

@titchy yes, in french lesson I remember saying I liked a lot of things that I didn’t actually like just because they were the words that I knew. Ha ha!

Forced teaming hits the nail on the head to be honest.

The whole video sounds really ill-conceived.

Because talking about personal information around sexuality with students is something that has form in other areas related to safeguarding

It doesn't sound like a feminist issue, more an LGB one.

Of course some safeguarding issues are also feminist issues, but that doesn't mean all safeguarding issues are feminist issues.

Are you suggesting that gay inclusion might be a Trojan horse for gender ideology?

If you're not the OP, I would still be interested in the OP's answer as to why they chose FWR for this.

@LonginesPrime

Because talking about personal information around sexuality with students is something that has form in other areas related to safeguarding

It doesn't sound like a feminist issue, more an LGB one.

Of course some safeguarding issues are also feminist issues, but that doesn't mean all safeguarding issues are feminist issues.

Are you suggesting that gay inclusion might be a Trojan horse for gender ideology?

If you're not the OP, I would still be interested in the OP's answer as to why they chose FWR for this.

No, I'm not the OP but we've had discussions around this type of thing in education on quite a few occasions.

Personally I think it's not as conscious as a Trojan Horse, but it is part and parcel of a tendency in education toward bringing things into the curriculum that don't belong there, and which makes it a heck of a lot easier for people to accept things that are Trojan Horses.

it is part and parcel of a tendency in education toward bringing things into the curriculum that don't belong there

I agree that the information was shared in an incredibly clumsy way which won't lead to true inclusion and may have the opposite effect by othering pupils who share characteristics with those teachers, and causing them great anxiety if they feel they might be encouraged to 'bring their whole self' to school.

I also personally have an objection to declaring that one's identity is gay, as opposed to one's sexual orientation being gay, because it suggests that it's self-determined and self-defined. One's sexuality can only be oriented in relation to others, so it feels artificial to express it in this way.

I also feel that the notion of 'gay' as an identity akin to gender identity assists in the argument that sexual attraction is something that should move with the times and adapt to accommodate heterosexual relationships pursuant to gender ideology, as if it is controlled by the person and can flex as necessary when told to.

And obviously, it would be horrific and completely bizarre if pupils were quizzed on their sexuality and forced to reveal this publicly.

However, if it comes up naturally in conversation, I strongly disagree that it's inappropriate for pupils to know a teacher is gay. As a gay teen myself, it was reassuring to have a gay teacher in my school, and she was the only one who tackled any of the homophobic bullying going on. She also stopped a lesson once because a kid made a sexist comment and she explained why gender stereotypes were a load of bollocks and incredibly harmful to everyone.

And later, as a gay teacher who wasn't out, it was really awkward because teenagers are curious and would pry into my personal life - they wanted to know everything. Obviously I maintained professional boundaries, and part of my job was to teach boundaries to the kids (e.g. explaining why it's not appropriate for me to tell them my address). But had I been out, I would have seen no issue with mentioning a partner.

Yes, OP's DD's situation sounds awful, but not because knowing a teacher is gay is inherently inappropriate for pupils to know - because of the way that information has been conveyed.

Sexual orientation is completely different from gender identify. If OP had an issue about the impact on safeguarding of this material in relation to paving the way for discussions around gender ideology (and the ones I'd be concerned about are listed above) then I can see the tangential relevance to FWR.

But the OP and title seem more concerned about the inappropriateness of knowing a teacher is gay. As if being gay is related to gender or in any way similar to being trans. It's not.

@titchy yes I’m sure lots of them do make up the content of their orals I was just trying to reassure Dido that the PP who is a teacher isnt some massive weirdo for asking the questions about families in her class the first place DP recently had a topic on hobbies and he did slides for the class, his intro was a slide saying in German my hobby is mountaineering with a picture of a peak he took last summer in the Alps. His colleague made a slide about Northern Ireland because she is from there, when “where are you from” was the topic. I hardly think this is lacking boundaries.
Pupils are often told at schools that Ms X is off because she has had her baby or whatever.
There are some really hysterical responses on this thread.

Don't most people make those up for their language GCSE though?

Most may, but don't some people have difficulties with being anything other than truthful? I've seen posters with autism say so in other contexts.

A teachers' personal life usually spills out, in a normal way, the way of human interaction.

I can't say any of my colleagues hide their sexuality, though certainly would nit declare mental health problems to students, no more than physical ones. Why dies it have to be so blatant. It sounds cringy for the students.

Theres something comical about it.

Sexuality itself is of course a private matter but I think it’s important for children to see diverse family set ups including gay couples. Likewise I think its important for children to see people with health conditions and disabilities, while some physical conditions are quite visible, mental health problems need to be pointed out to be visible.

Children can jump to strange conclusions based on their observations of the world. It’s best to be honest with them.

Good lord, if I'd revealed mental health problems to the kids I taught they'd have ripped me to shreds.

I'm a lesbian and I say we still live in a homophobic society so lessons on diversity are important. There will be lesbian gay and bisexual children attending the school, so it's great that they learn early on that they are part of 'normal'

We still live in an ablist and racist society too

I do think some of the discomfort on here does come from a place of homophobia. There's nothing wrong with (it sounds like secondary age kids) knowing they've got a gay teacher, or a teacher with bipolar disorder.

Absolutely ridiculous to say teachers shouldn’t share their sexual orientation. My students (Y1) know I’m married to a man. I’d hope that if I was married to a woman I’d be equally open about that. No teacher should ever feel they have to be out, but there’s no need for it to be secret.

They are not telling children about Mr Smith's sex dungeon are they

Yes it is a problem. How bloody inconsiderate and intrusive. I had a very nice but very, very unconventional family. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to discuss it with a nosey- parker teacher in front of the whole class.

Mfl teachers ask those questions because it is part of the bloody syllabus, not because they are nosy parkers fgs! And kids don't have to tell the truth if they don't want to. But I fail to see how me telling my classes that I have a husband and two children is going to traumatise them.

Don't most people make those up for their language GCSE though?

Lots certainly embellish holidays and hobbies etc for their GCSE orals, but tend to tell the truth about family etc because it's simpler than inventing stuff. But I teach MFL from primary upwards. Most kids seem to want to tell you about their lives tbh.

The MFL curriculum doesn't force them
to disclose anything, or have anything disclosed to them.

That's true. I usually tell the truth, but I never reveal anything controversial or deeply personal. A primary Head I worked with certainly had made it known he was married to a man. The kids would ask him whether his husband helped him mark their books!

In any case, lots of teachers live in the same communities as their pupils. They know each other's family set-ups. The teachers have met and often taught the children's siblings and occasionally even their parents.

I do think some of the discomfort on here does come from a place of homophobia. There's nothing wrong with (it sounds like secondary age kids) knowing they've got a gay teacher, or a teacher with bipolar disorder.

Of course there's nothing wrong with them knowing any of those things. The problem is (well, one of the problems) is that making a big thing of it does the opposite of normalisation.

How would 'I'm Catholic and follow Catholic doctrine to lead a happy and fulfilled life' , 'I'm a Muslim and follow Sharia Law' go down I wonder.

Of course pupils don't need to know about their teachers' sexualities. You only need that information if you're going to have sex with the person. Kind of the opposite of what's supposed to be the boundaries in the classroom, no?

As others have said, nothing wrong with acceptance of sexualities, if that's part of ordinary school life. For instance, a teacher comes to an end-of-term celebration with her gay partner. But announcing it and making it into A Thing? No.

Don’t conflate homophobia with legitimate criticism.

A lot of tolerant people don’t like everything becoming A Thing.

Boundaries are important. Modern world tramples all over them and I am sad to see schools colluding in this.

There are I do think some of the discomfort on here does come from a place of homophobia

I disagree. I think the concern comes from the manner in which this was done, by a teacher with 'previous'. It's breaking down children's boundaries, chipping away which is hugely damaging and potentially putting them in a very vulnerable position.

It's far more nuanced than that. Shouting 'homophobia' suggests that those posters haven't really understood that nuance.

Sorry first para was quoting someone..

But why is ‘diversity’ principally framed in the context of sexuality?

Because only sexuality can be hidden, and that is part of white male privilege. A white gay man might have historically lost his job if it was found out he was gay, at the same time a black woman wouldn't have got her foot in the door for an interview for the same job. The video the OP talks about only makes sense for hidden differences, what would be the point of holding up a card saying 'black' or 'female' or 'wheelchair user' or 'asian' or 'blind'. All those differences can't be hidden and all those teachers will have already been judged by their pupils before they even opened their mouths.

We do need the different viewpoints diversity brings and we need to teach children to be aware of their own prejudices. But I don't think watching a video about their teachers is necessarily the best way to do it, you don't learn to not be racist by seeing your black teacher hold up a card saying 'black', you learn how not to be racist by seeing all adults in your life treating people of different colours and backgrounds with respect.

Mfl teachers ask those questions because it is part of the bloody syllabus, not because they are nosy parkers fgs! And kids don't have to tell the truth if they don't want to

A poster said she asks children about their families. It is none of her business. The suggestion that , oh well it's ok just to lie is appalling. Maybe telling lies comes easily to you but don't assume every one is like that.

@didolamenting

I don’t think you’re getting it - asking the children about their families is on the GCSE MFL syllabus - so the teacher has to do it. What part of that don’t you understand?