Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I don't want to talk to any of my friends anymore

67 replies

WhatTiggersDoBest · 15/06/2020 17:23

This is my first thread in Women's Rights but I've been on MN for about a year. I'm having a bit of a mental growth period I think.
I always used to consider myself pro-trans. We have more than ten friends who are all trans, including my husband's closest friend. The only people I ever saw talking about the issues surrounding trans people were the people themselves, and their staunch allies who are practiced at shutting down every rational debate.
In the past week, never mind that the whole world has two really important problems to deal with - black lives matter is waking up society to the concept of systemic injustices, which will benefit everyone who is systemically disempowered, and obviously we've got this dirty great pandemic going on too that's causing another, more insidious pandemic - domestic violence.
But guess what all my "friends" on Facebook are talking about? Oh, yeah, trans rights. Actively misrepresenting the other side and making GC feminists out to be evil bigots.
Because people who grew up with toxic male privilege are of course far more important than anyone or anything else and we all have to get on their bandwagon or suffer the consequences.
I have been especially lonely during lockdown as I have a young baby and had just undertaken a massive career change.
I have always found the term "cis" offensive because we are not isomers, but honestly I was happy to live and let live until the past week. I'm just so upset and disappointed that people I thought were intelligent, critical thinkers are all just full of groupthink. The nastiness I've seen aimed at JKR... it's like they didn't understand the theme of the books at all.
I don't want to talk to pretty much anyone I know anymore. People I went to uni with. People I worked with. People from schools.
I lived in women's refuges for 6 months at one point, when my mum fled my stepdad, and knowing the women who go there, and the reasons they are there, and what a state they (and we) arrived in, I just can't support trans women having access to refuges. They don't even get men in to repair things, or let the postman in with a parcel. You're not even allowed to give your real address if you live in one, not even to the doctor's or schools, you give a PO box address.
No. Trans women shouldn't be in these spaces. They need a third space where they can rant and rave by themselves without making natal women suffer.
But none of them are understanding this in their quest to get access to places they can't usually go. As far as I can tell, they just want what they perceive as "privilege" of going to those places, and any argument is twisted into mud-slinging very quickly.
But I don't know where to find new friends who support natal women but who aren't phobic of the LGB community.
I'm not sure what I'm asking really, I just had to get this off my chest. I don't want my baby raised in a world where dangerous experimental medication is handed out to nine-year-olds, and where schools have the audacity to tell my son he isn't a boy because he likes to play with some girly stuff, or to tell my daughter that the feeling of loneliness and "otherness" she's feeling is because she isn't a girl, rather than because she IS a girl and is growing up, and I don't want to be friends with people who support this nonsense.
Am I really so wrong for questioning all this stuff? It's so hard to try and unstick myself from the groupthink.
Sorry if I'm rambling, I think I just need a handhold and some sound advice, because I feel like I'm waking up from a mass delusion by myself, and so alone.

OP posts:
HoneysuckIejasmine · 16/06/2020 07:02

Oof that medium article. Error immediately. Boris Johnson isn't "eroding rights", he's just not changing the existing law. I know some people have been acting like self ID was already law but it wasn't.

Trump however, is being a total arsehole just for the sake of it and I do oppose the changes he's trying to bring in.

Zebracat · 16/06/2020 09:22

@WhatTiggersDoBest. Thanks so much for the kind words. Child is 16 now and knows they aren’t trans. Still very supportive of the movement though, and very willing to condemn wrongthink. All the dysphoria seemed to be shrugged off like an old skin. I think it was puberty self consciousness, but if I d said that then I would have been seen as an abusive parent, and now it’s past, I wouldn’t want to embarrass them by raising it it. It’s weird for us to have gone from agonising over pe lessons and clothing to seeing this wonderful teenager enjoying the strength and beauty of their body.Last year is a lifetime ago for a teenager, but I don’t know if I will ever properly recover from the those 2 years. older siblings are allies and encouraged this weird situation where we were seen as the enemy, although we Tried just to be loving and to not jump in to anything. I feel like I walk a tightrope. I love my children, don’t want tofall out with them, but somehow have also to protect their future selves. It has been awful.

PikesPeaked · 16/06/2020 10:08

Isn't it strange that I can be friends and cordial colleagues with people who believe that they will go to heaven because they're baptised churchgoers, but I will go to hell because I reject Jesus and practice a different faith, and we can discuss our different beliefs together, attend each other's weddings, Christenings and Bar Mitzvahs, and trust each other to babysit? I have never been treated with hatred by Christians for not sharing their faith.

People of different faiths, who insist on only doctrinaire adherence to the dictates of their own faith are respected only within that faith - and even then, only among the most doctrinaire.

That's all trans ideology is: a faith-based position.

Manderleyagain · 16/06/2020 12:25

OP @resistersUK is there ok on twitter. Is it Ireland you need? Quite a few of the UK branches have their own twitter so if you can find out which you are you can follow.

@ExhaustedFlamingo
I completely see where you are coming from. I probably fall down the middle. There are a range of views in the 'resistance' to policies which replace sex with self-identified gender, but maybe the more black & white, certain sounding, voices are heard more.

WhatTiggersDoBest · 16/06/2020 15:25

@PikesPeaked I think this is what is bothering me about it. It's all based on faith. I've done so much reading lately.

@Manderleyagain Yeah it's Ireland I need. :( We're in the North of Ireland at the moment but moving south as soon as lockdown lifts enough. I'll follow the UK one though as I'm sure they'll be the first to know when the Irish one gets going again.

@Zebracat that sounds so difficult. I was reading a study yesterday or the day before that was an analysis of all the different long term studies of gender dysphoria and it basically said 63-90% of children who identify as "transgender" when they are younger, no longer identify as "trans" by age 16.

OP posts:
FantaOra · 16/06/2020 15:32

A useful insight from parents and clinicians on the perils of the current medicalisation of young people.

www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/j-k-rowling

Ninkanink · 16/06/2020 15:40
Flowers

Many, many women have been where you are.

There are hundreds of thousands of us. They can’t eradicate us all.

It is not phobic or hateful to speak material reality.

It is not phobic or hateful to speak biological fact.

It is not phobic or hateful to say I am not okay with men demanding access to women’s safe spaces.

‘Be kind’ more often than not = ‘Know your place; Shut your mouth.’

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 16/06/2020 16:16

That's all trans ideology is: a faith-based position.

Yes, indeed. I'm startled every time I try to discuss these things with people - people who will berate others loudly for their ignorance. Yet you ask a couple of questions, and it's clear they've not actually done the barest minimum of research, nor taken a moment to think carefully throught their position. They've just heard 'TWAW' and think it sounds kind of righteous, so they've nodded along. Bit depressing, really, how easily people are seduced by a punchy sounding slogan.

Catmaiden · 16/06/2020 16:37

I welcome this thread, as I had to de friend and block a number of people on social media last week, after I posted something they objected to. Saying sex is based on biology, and that I'm a Woman, turned people (who I thought were friends in RL,) abusive, aggressive towards me.
It is a cult, isn't it Confused. If you don't believe, you must be punished Sad

WhatTiggersDoBest · 16/06/2020 19:56

@Catmaiden yep, it's a cult. "Not liberal enough (in this one area)" has become the new "centre right", except "right" is "fascism" and so all "not liberal enough" people are fascists.
I feel very sad for the amount of young people who will realise in twenty years time as adults that this whole thing was a state-sanctioned, legitimised, socially accepted form of horrific child abuse. It won't give them their breasts or fertility back.

OP posts:
HarryHarry · 16/06/2020 20:19

@ExhaustedFlamingo I totally understand what you’re saying. I’ve gone round and round in my head asking myself “Am I wrong about this?” especially as I am the only person in my social circle who has questions and concerns. I hate finding myself on the same side as people I really dislike, or who hold abhorrent views on other topics, or who probably really are horrible transphobes. I hate feeling like a bigot. But I really do think I’m right to be against some aspects of trans ideology.

I’ve also wondered what I would do is my son or my daughter came out as trans. I would hope that I’ve done enough to teach them that they are perfect just the way they are and don’t need to change anything about themselves, and that gender is regressive bullshit, and that WHAT they are in terms of biological sex has no bearing on WHO they are as people. But if they really believed that they were the opposite sex? If I felt certain that we’d addressed all any underlying mental health issues, I guess I’d have to support them through their transition. It’s such a tough one!

HarryHarry · 16/06/2020 20:25

@Ninkanink This “be kind” thing pisses me off! I have been attacked by men countless times because I was afraid of them but instead of trusting my instincts and telling them to fuck off, I stayed silent because I didn’t want to be rude.

I was going to buy some Peppa Pig socks at the weekend but I noticed they had “Be kind” stitched on them. They were aimed at little girls of course. You never see that written on boys’ clothes, do you?

WhatTiggersDoBest · 16/06/2020 23:30

I've just been reading another thread where people have explained beautifully about the concept of "peak trans". I think what has happened to JKR was peak trans for me, but there have been so many mini-peaks since then.

OP posts:
TehBewilderness · 16/06/2020 23:54

Always ask yourself the "Is it me or is it them" question, HarryHarry. It is so important to be honest with ourselves. Be wary of people who do not ask themselves that question.

DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong · 16/06/2020 23:59

The peaks just keep coming, I’m afraid.

Check out the stories of transwidows, they’ll strengthen your feminist resolve like nothing else.

There are lots of GC Facebook groups where you can find new friends, women who won’t shame you because you know the difference between a male human and a female human and you aren’t willing to pretend you can’t.

Some admins will want to vet you a bit first.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/06/2020 00:28

You never see that written on boys’ clothes, do you?

No you're quite right, you don't.

TehBewilderness · 17/06/2020 00:34

Man who has it all twitter guy is selling kids tees flipping the script printed on children's clothing.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page