JK Rowling row hints at generational rift on transgender rights - The Guardian

[Rubidium]

An interesting and thought-provoking article on transgender issues in The Grauniad! I wish there had been a bit more depth, but its a start.

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jun/12/jk-rowling-row-hints-at-generational-rift-on-transgender-rights

What stood out for me:
From Lucy Hunter Blackburn: “This debate has become an excuse to parade some pretty ugly attitudes about the right of women over a certain age to have a public voice, and the value of older women’s political views.”

Today’s young adults are the middle-aged of tomorrow. It won’t be too long before generationZ/alpha regard millennials as middle aged has-beens who should just shut up, and that will be a fascinating thing to watch unfold. (I type as a member of Generation X.)

From Finn Mackay: “Also, we know that plenty of young people too have questions about sex and gender, and about including trans women in women-only spaces or not”

I always think of the 13-year-old who took Oxfordshire County Council to court for denying her sex-segregated changing facilities, the female detransitioners, the teenage girls dehydrating themselves because the only toilets in their schools are unisex and no doubt other examples of young women and girls getting a raw deal as a result of trans ideology and I hope they either become or continue to be angry about how harmful this ideology is, and fight back against the millennials who promulgate it.

But then isn't that like being attacked by someone of a particular race and then being scared of that race? Although it makes sense why you'd feel that way, it is still prejudice

The simple answer is that it's not the same as segregating by race or sexuality. Across the world men and women are segregated in areas where women are vulnerable or where they need privacy. Not just toilets but changing rooms and places where women sleep (e.g. safe houses, hostels, prisons). This isn't prejudice against men, it's for the safety and dignity of women.

If you're a woman it's very unlikely you would feel comfortable getting changed in a mixed sex communal changing room. It's probably even less likely you'd be comfortable with your teen daughter doing that. This isn't because we're prejudiced, it's for our own dignity and safety.

It's not as simple as "trans women are women, let them pee in peace". Personally I think the rules should be made on a case by case basis. My views on public toilets are different from that of prisons and refuges because there are different levels of vulnerability.

We also have to define what "transwomen" means. Are we talking about someone with a GRC? Someone who has had a sex change? Someone who merely asserts that they are female?

Other women will have a much firmer stance on this but my view is that there is no blanket rule on this.

I've said on here before that personally, toilets are not my personal peak trans moment. I'm lucky and privileged by the fact that I very seldom need to use public toilets and when I do I have luckily never felt threatened. I think the focus on toilets and "we just want to pee" is a way to make women look like pathetic dinosaurs.

My peak trans moments have all been related to a) the rank sexist stereotyping and homophobia that surrounds all discussions how how people knew they were trans or non-binary ("I always wanted to wear dresses and do ballet, so I knew I was really a girl and had to take puberty blockers and cross sex hormones" or "I never wanted to wear a dress so I knew I had to have my breasts surgically removed") - I mean, what the fuck!? and

b) the redefinition of the word women to mere belief and assertion. I don't even mind people saying that "gender" is based on sincerely-belief, as long as "sex" has a firm meaning rooted in biology and sex-based rights are protected.

There are since an entire laundry list of additional peak-trans moments I have experienced, all of which have been discussed extensively on FWR like the break it down for me thread and the it never happens thread. There was another good one where people shared their peak experiences.

Why can't transwomen and transmen just be proud of who they are? Why the need to redefine and dehumanise women as menstruaters (which isn't even recognised by my spell-check) or pregnant people?

I guess I'm just incredibly wary as I've watched all of my friends have kids with their "feminist" partners and they end up working full time and doing the vast majority of the unpaid labour. Just like my mum did 30 years ago. It feels like nothing has changed. I'd love to think me and my partner would find a lovely, happy, equitable balance but I don't know a single woman who has managed to pull that off.

I think in a lot of cases, it's just not that easy for a couple with young kids, or even older ones, to have two full time careers and not be stretched to also get the rest of life done. It's always going to be a stress point for all but the most motivated and active. I think home/kids is often a ft or almost ft job for the first few years, and PT up until about 15 or 16. Assuming there are no issues like sn. We'd almost be better off to create a model of society that expected that and made it work for people.

Goosefoot I completely agree. The only way it works is if, like me and my DH, you outsource the home part entirely, and the kids are part-outsourced when they go to school full-time and then you just have to deal with the wraparound. DH also has a term-time only job.

And it doesn't work during lockdown! Our work is both suffering, because we couldn't outsource. It has really brought home how our jobs are both built with the expectation that we each have someone facilitating things at home. All of my male colleagues are either single, empty nesters, or have SAH wives, all my female colleagues are childless. Same goes for DH.

Xiaoxiong

Yes, typically what I see in professional families where one job is very time consuming is the other partner is at home, or if both are, they hre help.

That works under normal circumstances, if they are paid with that in mind. Though I think the pandemic has really shown us that it's not the most resilient model.

Where it gets difficult is where you get to a point that both jobs don't pay for a fairly basic lifestyle with extra help. I think that fact in itself causes a huge amount of marital tension. And again, if you suddenly have an ill spouse or elderly parents needing help or a child for whom school isn't working out there is no flexibility.

It's like we decided the work of home and childrearing isn't "real" work so we could forget about it in our societal arrangements.

I've just read this article in the Guardian weekend. I think its astonishingly bad because there is no attempt at a discussion about a. whether there is a generational rift - probably yes, and why that is.
Instead, its an article that says - young people are for transgender equality and older women are against transgender rights. Three of the four commentators say that in various ways, with no effort to look at what women are saying.

'Some of the arguments put forward are frightening for example the supposed threats to children and some of those voices are really loud.'

Really disappointing.