Caitlin Moran

[Korimiko]

Thinking she ‘might’ be with us.

Check her reply to Dr Jess Taylor. Soz, not up to screenshooting at the mo).

I read that book back in 2012 when it came out. I don't specifically remember that quote but it didn't really register with me at the time as an issue.

I think 8 years ago most people thought that trans was transsexual and that invitation to the lady party meant a bit of a chat in the lady's room before back to work with someone who at least attempted to pass. I had no problem then with "rose" having an invitation to that lady party and I think in most case most posters here wouldn't either.

The "lady party" in 2020 though is now an invite to get your dick out in the gym because it's a lady dick. With Bob from accounts who has a ZZ top beard.

I've changed my mind on this as I've learnt more almost all of us have. I was very definitely in the Trans Ally camp once. I look back and wince at how naive I was.

I didn't write anything publicly to backtrack from and I'm only GC with family ATM as I'd have to wave my career goodbye

I like CM and it'd be great if you could be a high profile woman writer without people bringing your clothes or face into it.
I admit I was put off her for ages just due to the title "How to be a woman" which just irritated me inexplicably. I do think she's very unlikely to be out and proud gc, but I wonder if she'll come out with enough harmless comments to feel the ire of the TRAs, who won't ever forgive, and have to apologise for wrongthink.

The Times is known for its wacky reader base and the nutty journalists right? So go on which of the three pics there is she dressed like a teenager? The blue silk blouse or the teal one, or the yellow one?

I don't really think it's fair to say she has to go public with a specific view either way. This is a hugely important issue, but loads of people are choosing not to engage.

However, it seems to me that whichever way she leans (my instinct is that originally she was in the TWAW camp and that she might be changing her mind), there's no doubt that she certainly engages plenty with a wide range of women, including those who are GC. Unlike many high profile types, she steps up and says that the abuse women receive isn't okay etc.

I don't agree with the TWAW camp. But I can accept a different viewpoint. My issue is the hate, misogyny, abuse etc that follows directly or indirectly. It's the passive aggressive, patronising tone of Daniel Radcliff's statement in which he thinks he has the right to apologise on JKR's behalf? It's just mind-blowing.

Oh detail!!....is that you Caitlin? Yoo hoo!

I do think she's very unlikely to be out and proud gc, but I wonder if she'll come out with enough harmless comments to feel the ire of the TRAs, who won't ever forgive, and have to apologise for wrongthink.

Apparently the actress who played Luna Lovegood has had to delete her twitter account for asking people to be kind to JKR while also saying TWAW.

I think her appearance has some relevance here: it does seem to be those women in their thirties and forties who are obviously terrified of seeming middle aged who shout "TWAW!!!" the loudest, and she's a classic example. Younger women in their twenties are still desperately clinging on to wanting to be validated by men and perhaps don't yet have the life experience to be GC. For those with a few more decades under our belt it becomes increasingly obvious that they do know how the world works, they're just lying about it.

I'm not holding my breath. I've been keeping an eye on her and looking for signs of a change for a while as in other ways I like and respect her.

Oh detail!!....is that you Caitlin? Yoo hoo

Yes, I must be. No other woman would find this entire conversation sexist and stupid.

I think her appearance has some relevance here: it does seem to be those women in their thirties and forties who are obviously terrified of seeming middle aged who shout "TWAW!!!"

Jesus.

No, he's not here. Try Mary Magdalen because obviously i'm being accused of wrongthink

yes indeed it's a fairly silly convo but it's amusing me now ..... and who else would know about Caitlin's'teal' blouse or her selection of colours. ...

I think Caitlin is probably GC but she’s also right-on and I think she’s struggled to reconcile those in past years.

Like a lot of us, I reckon.

I would’ve probably invited a transsexual male to the ‘lady party’ in 2012 too.

I’ve not read her books but I absolutely LOVED the sitcom she wrote. The mother character, Della, is fantastic.

Any heads tentatively over the parapet right now are welcome, we can always castigate them for being late to the tervey party at a later date (preferably over gin).

CM isn't stupid. She knows what an adult human female is. The theme runs through every chapter of her books. Periods, Birth, Miscarriage, Abortion, sex, you can't understand those through a feminist lens. But will she come out and take on the onslaught Rowling has? JKR has got ovaries of fucking titanium.

I love Cailin Moran and I would like her to be GC obvs.

Its really really hard though, for a female public figure to come out publicly. I've found it hard and I'm NOT a public figure!

Just for context i'm a woman in my late thirties too. I guess "Jesus" is mn shorthand for don't talk about other women who fall into roughly the same demographic you do."

@HermionesMom

I read that book back in 2012 when it came out. I don't specifically remember that quote but it didn't really register with me at the time as an issue.

I think 8 years ago most people thought that trans was transsexual and that invitation to the lady party meant a bit of a chat in the lady's room before back to work with someone who at least attempted to pass. I had no problem then with "rose" having an invitation to that lady party and I think in most case most posters here wouldn't either.

The "lady party" in 2020 though is now an invite to get your dick out in the gym because it's a lady dick. With Bob from accounts who has a ZZ top beard.

Yes. It's been quite the journey!

yes indeed it's a fairly silly convo but it's amusing me now ..... and who else would know about Caitlin's'teal' blouse or her selection of colours.

I meant to add this link I do apologise. CM would have far better grammar though, so no, you're merely talking to another poster who thinks focusing on a woman's clothing to decide if her views are worthy is crap.

www.thetimes.co.uk/profile/caitlin-moran?page=1

Just for context i'm a woman in my late thirties too. I guess "Jesus" is mn shorthand for don't talk about other women who fall into roughly the same demographic you do."

I'm late thirties, I just don't assume that women who dress differently than I do (I am the feminist stereotype) are trying to keep their claws wedged into leg of male approval. And that's not accusing you of "wrong think" that's pointing out the obvious.

I think her appearance has some relevance here: it does seem to be those women in their thirties and forties who are obviously terrified of seeming middle aged who shout "TWAW!!!"

Oh come on. Her appearance is entirely irrelevant. I am nearly 50 (the horror) and I wear exactly what I like, thanks, regardless of people think it's 'inappropriate for my age'. Caitlin's outfits are not outside my fashion zone. It's clothes.

Of course @HermionesMom you're on of those rare people who never judges anyone else. What crap. We all make judgements about the way other people look all day long, whether we mean to or not.

"I wish that builder would hoik his jeans up - I can see his arse"

"why has that kid got shorts on when it's snowing?"

"I had a jacket like that in 1993."

Pretending you never notice or judge anyone elses appearance is the MN equivalent of those bearded wokesters who claim they never even notice if the person next to them is male or female, so what are we getting ourselves worked up about. Judgement is a normal intellectual function. Nothing to be ashamed of.

Pretending you never notice or judge anyone elses appearance is the MN equivalent of those bearded wokesters who claim they never even notice if the person next to them is male or female, so what are we getting ourselves worked up about.

That's me told. If you don't think a female journalist's appearance is relevant in a discussion on the feminist site, you're a woke hipster who thinks men are women. Yes, fine bit of a debate. I apologise unreservedly for thinking it was silly and shallow.

Hey @RuffleCrow I'm in my 20s and am firmly GC! although I am in the minority amongst my friends so Mumsnet has been a godsend.

But if we're talking about a female journalist's work and opinions, the way she looks is utterly irrelevant.... right?