Do you think most people simply agree with radical TRA’s from lack of knowledge?

[Cornana]

Most of my friends have said things like, “oh JK Rowling is very transphobic.” When I’ve actually showed them her Tweets, they’ve turned around and said it’s nothing like they thought and they agree with her. I study Law and most of my peers are very grounded and rational- We all understand the implications of getting rid of single sex definitions and spaces, etc, as we have to learn about it. The average person could easily not realise this, as it’s not something that really comes up unless you happen to be in the field or similar. I find a lot of my friends who judged Rowling and similar just actually didn’t know what being gender critical was about- Once we’ve actually had a conversation about what it actually is, the legal and social consequences etc, they’re normally a lot more open to gender critical points of view and agree with me.

Just that basically- Do other people think the trans movement only has such a big support online as people just don’t really know much or pay attention, see the word “transphobic” and automatically agree?

No. My relative has read JKR’s explanation and posted a medium article in response that misrepresents what she said an is all about how sad the author now feels as a result of this literal violence. My relative believes that Trans Woman can have periods and that sex is a spectrum and that ‘womanhood’ is not defined by biology and that’s it’s insulting to suggest it is. She’s been reinforced by a loads of her friends piling on the discussion. Even if she did have doubts to express them would be to make her a pariah in her friendship group.

Yes, so many people pitch into the debate without doing any research at all.

It happens often on this board, people join a thread to berate posters for their "transphobia" and then post comments they don't realise would be read as transphobic by activists.

Most people don’t think to in depth.

Attaching the T to the LGB was the key.

A stroke of genius.

Yes definitely agree OP, the few friends I've felt able to have sensible discussions with have said they can see the issue now and admitted they just hadn't thought about it properly.

I think it was the care of the rape survivor being 'told off' by a judge during the trial for referring to her (male) transwoman rapist as 'he'. That really seemed to flip a switch for them.

Everyone wants to be 'nice' and inclusive and good little woke lefties, and I include myself in this for the most part. But I won't sell women and women's rights down the river for it.

I would say the average person doesn't know much about it.

I once had a conversation with a man who thought that SRS was able to give a trans woman a vagina and uterus. No dilating or anything needed.

Whatever you think about gender, that's just not true.

My main worry is that kids who are not educated about what transition involves may be incorrect about the kind of results they can get from it.

Yes.

I think lots of people don't understand the single sex changing room issue because they think "I don't mind using a mixed sex changing room, so nobody should mind using a mixed sex changing room".

However, if you study legislation, you have to ask how it affects everyone.

Yes. I think some people think they're has been a scientific breakthrough that shows you can be born on the wrong body. Other people are misogynist or internalising misogyny and wondering why on earth anyone would want to identify as a female when females are inferior - they must really be women inside if they would demean themselves to join the inferior class.

It's sort of how I used to think when I was in my teens/early 20s.

Most people don't know about autogynephilia. They don't know the trans Umbrella includes crossdressers. They don't know the language of law is being changed which takes away from the hard won rights of women.

Several years ago I had a medical doctor, one who is passionately pro trans, lecture me at length about the terrible suicide statistics among young transpeople and the shocking murder rate of transpeople around the world. I didn't know much about it at that point, just that as a lesbian I was fed-up with having to encounter men at lesbian events. My very mild and rather naive questions reduced her to tears of rage.

I went and investigated and found this place. Here I found proper analysis of the statistics — and young transpeople weren't committing suicide every five minutes, as she'd said. In fact their suicide rate was lower than that of anorexic young people and others with sever MH disorders. The murder rate for transpeople in the UK was in line for the wider population. In fact that year, if I remember correctly, there had been as many transwomen involved in the murder of others as were murdered.

I wrote her a long email explaining why what she had told me wasn't true with a load of links and information to follow up on. We never spoke again. She ignored what I sent her and she's still out there chanting TWAW at Pride and patrolling her city, looking for instances of transphobiar.

Last year — think it was last year — she went into a shop which frames prints and told them that having a framed image of JK Rowling hanging up was transphobic and they should take it down. It got onto FB and I think the police were asked to have a word with her. She's a total trans fanatic and my blood runs cold when I think what she's telling people about JK Rowling this week. The transgender issue has given those with a fanatical tendency a chance to exercise it with a vengeance.

Most people do NOT agree with TRAs. Most people are not media luvvies.

I've found a lot of people who say they hate transphobia, crumble if asked a specific question... Such as 'would you be happy with your teenage daughter sharing an open an changing area at be swimming pool with one of your male friends' or 'should people be allowed to play rugby with the opposite sex'.

Yes
I think most people would be surprised to learn lots of trans women have a fully functional penis that they love using.

Wow! That ten year old in the news report. So brave, I doubt most 10 year olds would be able to react like that.

Such as 'would you be happy with your teenage daughter sharing an open an changing area at be swimming pool with one of your male friends'

The only problem with this argument is that some people genuinely don't mind mixed sex facilities, or have the privilege of being able to only use mixed sex facilities where they feel safe.

For instance I am happy to get changed on a beach with just a towel. I have to apply a bit of analysis to realise that I have chosen to go to the beach and that I feel safe because I have subconsciously made a risk assessment of all the other people using the beach, and I am too far away from any of them to feel threatened.

If e.g. I relied on availability of public toilets because I had IBS, and just had to use any toilet regardless of who else was there, I would feel differently.

It happens often on this board, people join a thread to berate posters for their "transphobia" and then post comments they don't realise would be read as transphobic by activists.

I have to admit I love it when that happens 😬

There was one a couple of weeks ago telling us how horrible and transphobic we were. They then said they didnt believe people could change sex. When I said that was transphobic they had to gall to get annoyed by that

Yes. Goosefoot made a good point recently about how most if us are happy to accept unexamined views if they are supported by people we think trustworthy - I think black holes was the example? - paraphrasing but the point was most people don't and perhaps couldn't follow the physics behind the existence of black holes.

Interesting point OP. I have been looking at some of the resources on here and twitter that people declaring women being pro-woman as phobic haters.

EVERY TIME the link leads to some bollocks op-ed, even by bloggers with no expertise, or skewed studies and biasedly interpreted statistics. I actually am really keen to see all this evidence that these people are using to base their rather entrenched opinions. And it is not well structured, evidence based and it never is thought provoking and rarely balanced. Often, it is myths being perpetuated by the masses with absolutely no critical thinking applied.

It is hard not to agree - the oppression Olympics are too strong.

People feel sorry and just go along with it.

Where most people might not understand the issue, and might not know the facts, that is definitely changing.

You only have to look at below the line comments on every single article, or, if you've a mind, AIBU.

Unless newspapers specifically report all the facts, which would make rather dull reading I imagine, the information is going to get out there piecemeal.

And it is. There are a few posters on this thread who say they have changed their mind. This is happening, absolutely everywhere.

It's making people wonder what the hell is going on when someone like J. K. Rowling says sex is real, and is vilified. Once they realise what constitutes transphobia, the cat is out of the bag.

And that's often before they even realise the full extent. Before they realise the lack of surgery, AGP, that Stonewall has turned, there is no such thing as homosexuality, etc.

It takes time. But certainly, I have noticed a snowball effect happening.

Many do. I think the point at which most people lose sympathy with the idea is when it comes to examining their own sexual preferences. People who are happy with the idea that gender matters more than biology have a tendency not to feel that way when it comes to who they let into their beds.

Yes

I think it's a combination of a lot of the above, plus, I'm ashamed to say, indifference. Of the "I neither know nor care because it doesn't affect me" kind. I have 2 female friends who are engineers. (Not a couple, just met at uni and stayed friends.) They have succeeded in a male dominated work place and think if they can do it, so should everyone else. I bought one of them Invisible Women for Christmas and this did more to change their minds than anything I could ever say. They are finding their anger, but for a lot of busy women, they don't have the time or energy until it directly impacts them. Usually in a very, very negative way.

I don’t want to depress you but teen ds told me this morning the new news he’d learned. “That JK Rowling was homophobic”. He doesn’t read a proper newspaper so this was from places like discord.

I managed to get his attention for long enough to explain things to him, and direct him to the actual source, what the real person actually said, but he’d seen the “phobic” lie loads of places. The lie is all the way around the world..

Some people simply don't want to know.

I've been 'defriended' by someone who I ordinarily view as intelligent and whose values I normally share this week because I upset her by pointing out that Daniel Radcliff's apology on behalf of JKR was misogynistic. She considers herself a feminist.

She didn't want to hear it. I got an I'm not listening your invading my 'happy place' response and then defriended.

A third party (another friend of hers who I don't know) privately messaged me to say that I was right (and brave! ) for pointing it out.

Some women, therefore , just do not want to know.

Yes, I think so for people over the age of about thirty.

I've seen some surveys though with young people who seem to honestly now have a different definition of biological sex that relates entirely to personal choice.

I do wonder what it will be like for those women over the next ten years when sexism rears its ugly head and it has fuck all to do with gender identity.

I don’t want to depress you but teen ds told me this morning the new news he’d learned. “That JK Rowling was homophobic”. He doesn’t read a proper newspaper so this was from places like discord.

I'm so sorry but I actually lolled at that.

Yes, she's been sending Dumbledore to gay conversion therapy.