Why have mixed toilets become so popular now?

[KatDubs261]

I am still fairly new to this debate but I am determined that we will keep our single sex spaces.

What I am wondering is - if transmen and transwomen have been using the gendered toilets they identify with for years - why is it only recently there has been a big push for mixed sex.toilets?

Sourced would be great

Our single sex toilets at work were changed to mix sex. Men would leave the door open. We successfully reversed the decision.

That is very encouraging news, HandsOff. Well done.

OP, I sympathise with your feelings and in the past I have also used the women's loos to escape male predators. Harder to do now that men can just stroll in.

It is officially still illegal for men to use women's single-sex facilities. But numerous organisations, companies, shops etc are now openly breaking the law by letting men choose which toilet, changing room etc they want to use.

It's hard to regain a right that's been trampled on like this. But we have to keep repeating that we didn'y give it away and we want it back.

Popular with whom?

I have used them twice, bad experiences both times.

1. Museum popular with families. Never seen such a filthy toilet. Wee all over the floor. Strong sense I'd been in the gents.

1. Posh restaurant. As I came out of the loo, bloke was coming out of the loo opposite. He hadn't finished doing up his flies before coming out of the cubicle so accidentally flashed me. Even though I was 2m from the restaurant I felt incredibly unsafe. Don't think the bloke was happy either.

They're a cheap solution to the push by activist political extremist lobbies that males must have access to female spaces, without all the headaches of who is allowed where and with what label and degree of transitions and females objecting to it. Female people pointed out that this would happen.

No, most male and female people don't want this, certainly no females were clamouring to be allowed to pee with men because it was so unfair, and it will actively exclude many females, but nobody asked them.

Actually, many TW, particularly those who choose to name themselves as transsexual (India Willoughby I think has gone on record talking about this?) is that the desired thing was to be using female only spaces with females. Mixed sex takes that away.

So nobody's happy now, but businesses and organisations can't be moaned at for being uninclusive, or be vulnerable to having to try and police the males going into female facilities or to legal claims when it all goes wrong.

I went to a comedy night last year and the venue only had mixed sex facilities. The queue wasn't from by the sinks either, there were men and women right outside the cubicle. I felt very uncomfortable changing my sanitary wear when I could see a man's shoes under the cubicle door.

@KatDubs261

I am still fairly new to this debate but I am determined that we will keep our single sex spaces.

What I am wondering is - if transmen and transwomen have been using the gendered toilets they identify with for years - why is it only recently there has been a big push for mixed sex.toilets?

Sourced would be great

They are deeply unpopular in real life

Locally to me, any places that have mixed toilets either have singular toilets like disabled, or have mixed toilets whilst still having male and female toilets in the same building and usually the same area as the mixed. Which tbh I applaud as it's in essence a "third" space.

@BlueBlouse

I think it's just that people aren't culturally ready. From what I can tell, the main points that people keep raising are:

1. Men aren't used to being expected in the same way as women to behave well in toilets and keep toilets decent, so from what people have posted, it seems that they don't behave as well in toilets.

1. Then there's fear of sexual assault. Risk of sexual assault is again a cultural (I e: you'll notice that rates of sexual assault vary by country depending on what the people are raised to believe about men and women).

So culturally, we probably aren't ready for gender neutral toilets yet, but, if those things change (men being cleaner because it's expected of them, lower rates of sexual assault because men are brought up with a better understanding of women and empathy, and there is less tolerance for men when they do behave in sexually inappropriate ways ...etc) then in the future, they might be a good idea.

It allows families to use the same toilet (so if a dad and his little 6 year old girl go for a day out, he doesn't have to worry about her having to be separated from him in a place that he can't check she's okay if she needs to toilet).

People us this dad with 6 year old daughter argument to justify gender neutral toilets but give no regard to that same 6 year old when she is 14 and not out with her dad. What about her safety using gender neutral loos. Not such a good argument now is it? In a female loo she is safe

Also to add.. the mixed toilets also have floor to ceiling walls and doors and solid walls between cubicles compared to the bog standard cubicles in the sex specific toilets. Which I think has been done brilliantly as it makes it impossible for someone to be spied on, and has a layer of comfort as for example people in the room or in neighbouring toilets couldn't for example hear a person changing a sanitary pad. So I'm glad it was so well thought out as it makes the shared toilets comfortable to use and removes some of the worries. If people are still uncomfortable then they can use the single sex toilets.

I prefer mixed toilets if they are properly set up with doors down to the floor and a sink.
I have a young son and I don’t feel safe letting him go on his own to male toilets in some places.
Also mixed toilets get rid of some awkwardness for people who do not conform to gender stereotypes including women who look male.

Last year DH and I were in a posh department store in London Liberty's and DH needed to go. Found the facilities were mixed sex. DH used the facilities but was very uncomfortable that he had to share the space with a woman and her primary aged daughter, even though the loos were enclosed.

They are also open plan (eg free standing sinks in the middle, toilets all around the outside) and very bright and well lit, so theres no dark corners or hidden areas for people to be threatened in, as from the door to the toilets you can see the entire room. They also have staff doing regular cleans (and thus checks) there too. Cubicles have solid tiled (brick?) Walls between them, and floor to ceiling doors on all cubicles so even the most determined peepers would find it impossible and it adds privacy by muffling almost all toileting sounds.
Although this is in a food place where it is mostly 18+ with parents occasionally bringing their child and single sex toilets are available.

They are becoming increasingly common at universities, I can’t imagine many women on campus feel comfortable speaking out.

@FuchsiaFox

Locally to me, any places that have mixed toilets either have singular toilets like disabled, or have mixed toilets whilst still having male and female toilets in the same building and usually the same area as the mixed. Which tbh I applaud as it's in essence a "third" space.

Only to be applauded if they are being used by people of the sex they are intended for and not by those that ‘feel’ as if they are the opposite sex. Unfortunately many people (mainly male bodied people) will demand access to female spaces so that women can be used as their props for validation.

@ShouldWeChangeTheBulb

I prefer mixed toilets if they are properly set up with doors down to the floor and a sink. I have a young son and I don’t feel safe letting him go on his own to male toilets in some places. Also mixed toilets get rid of some awkwardness for people who do not conform to gender stereotypes including women who look male.

And what about women who want female only toilets in order to maintain their rights privacy, dignity and feelings of safety. Don’t we count? If men can’t be trusted in the male toilets, then that needs to be dealt with, rather than permitting them to use the previously known as, female toilets. Why are people being forced to have their boundaries trampled over?

@LillianBland
No not at all, I was just chipping in as many previous posters had said no women prefer them.
I think a combination of single sex toilets a urinal and a mixed sex space would best suit everybody.

Women are statistically more likely to kill children than men, because they have more access to them. Their own children! They don’t go lifting children off the street and murdering them. Stop trying to imply that women are as likely to harm a strange child as much as a man. That’s utter shite and you know it.

The reason those women are known, is because it’s exceedingly rare for women to be involved in the kidnapping and assault/murder of children. Male abusers/murders are so common that their names are soon forgotten.

It has been proven time and time again that mixed sex areas, that were traditionally female, increase the risk of voyeurism, assaults and sexual abuse of children and women, by MEN. Not women, men.

[quote BlueBlouse]@sashagabadon because some women can be a treat to a little girl. Women are statistically more likely to kill children than men, because they have more access to them. Women can also act to lure away children for men, like Myra Hindley did.

Or she could come out of the toilets earlier than her dad, and so get lured off by a strange man whilst he's still having a wee or washing his hands. So it's not as black and white as "she was in a women's toilet so she was definitely safe".[/quote]
Silly argument. In no way is a 14 year old girl MORE safe in a gender neutral loo than in a female one.
It is about minimising risks and female loos are safer for women and girls.
Using myra hindley shows how weak this argument is.
Any examples from the last 20 years of females luring teen girls or pre teen girls away from female loos for sexual purposes or any other purpose for that matter?
( not that myra hindley actually did use loos for this purpose)
Female loos are safer, it is unarguable by anyone sensible

[quote ShouldWeChangeTheBulb]@LillianBland
No not at all, I was just chipping in as many previous posters had said no women prefer them.
I think a combination of single sex toilets a urinal and a mixed sex space would best suit everybody.[/quote]
I totally agree, but unfortunately there are those that demand that toilets are mixed sex or that that certain make bodied people should have access to female toilets, because of how they ‘feel’.

What about the safety of kids in all of this.

[quote BlueBlouse]@sashagabadon I was talking about the little 6 year old girl[/quote]
But the 6 year old is with here dad? She can go with her dad into the mens and stay with him and he can instruct her not to wander off. My dd did that for years with her dad until she turned 8 and then she went in the female loos where she was perfectly safe.
6 year old girls grow up and when they do, female loos keep them safer
Yes anything can happen to anyone but female loos are safer for women and girls. Anyone claiming anything otherwise is talkung nonsense (and they know it too, hence using myra hindley to back up their pov)