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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Just asked to comment on primary schoolSexual Education policy in Ireland. Your help needed.

152 replies

XXSex · 10/06/2020 10:20

Can’t out myself too much.

Lots of resource books about transgender listed.

One - only one Angry - book on female empowerment. None on male breaking down the sexist stereotypes apart from 3 (!!!!!) boy becomes girl books and now boy is happy because he can finally become himself.

I suspect that this is going to be a standard roll out in Irish primary schools (ages 4-12) and want to get my points across.

Help please with

  • additional books on female and males books breaking stereotypes and ultimate acceptance.
  • comments that I can give to the school.

They are bringing in concepts as transgender at 4-7 and not including anything about not having to confirm to what societal bonds there might be! Angry FFS

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7Days · 13/06/2020 01:14

Does anyone know of any GC groups in Ireland to get involved in?

Not expecting names on here! Just even to know they exist

Annasgirl · 13/06/2020 08:47

Any of you read Jennifer O'Connell in the IT to-day? Sad, but of course she was on the Trans bandwagon ages ago.

Annasgirl · 13/06/2020 08:48

Sorry, early morning and I am so tired of writing about this all now - would love to meet up and talk - I don't think I am up to a JK Rowling essay on my thoughts!!!!Grin

TheBeastAwakens · 13/06/2020 09:26

I didn't read Louise O'Neill yesterday and I can't read Jennifer O'Connell today. I know they'll come up with the old cliches and it's just too dispiriting.

@7Days - I would love to know of any GC groups - please PM me if you exist!!

EarlofEggMcMuffin · 13/06/2020 09:47

Annasgirl I just read it and am disgusted.

"the only people whose rights are up for grabs are trans and non-binary people"
If this were true, I would be 100% on-board with protecting their rights...as a decent human, I am 100% onboard with protecting the rights of anyone.

It is mendacious to infer that the women's rights are not at risk.

I am (and I suspect Jennifer O'C also) a highly privileged person.
I am highly educated, in a professional job role, living in my own home, with access to clean water and healthcare.
That puts me in the top 1% of people who have ever lived.

If my mother were in a different country, I might have been aborted before birth.
In some countries, as an older sister of a boy, I might have been prostituted, or sent into low paying work in my early teens, to subsidise the education of my brother.
In some places, my parents would not have invested in my education at all.
In some places, I would be a grandmother, as my daughters would have been married off by now.
In many countries, I would not have survived pregnancy (I needed medical intervention in my pregnancies).

I cannot abide porn...for the reason that the 'right' to express sexuality, or be titillated, is less important than the rights of women who are used and abused to produce porn.
My salary, as a highly qualified professional, who has heavily invested in training, is nowhere near what it would be if I worked in a "male" profession.
Sitting in meetings, it is routine for my voice to be ignored. I am quite assertive, thank you, I have "leaned-in" (before anyone starts blaming me for the lack of being heard).

I could go on (and on and on and on).
Women's rights are not rock solid anywhere in the world.

Unfortunately for people who identify as trans, the push for their rights has been hijacked by a group which would put women in my country back into the position of so many other women around the world . Because? they hate women.
Jennifer briefly acknowledges this when she says [Rowling] " was threatened on Twitter with “cancelling, punching and death”."

My daughters' right to be recognised as a separate biological sex from men, their rights, are being eroded by the "trans rights" movement.
Their right to play sports with other women, and not be injured by XY people.
Their rights to education in a single sex school, which study after study says leads to better educational outcomes for them.
Their right to bodily privacy in single sex bathrooms.
Their rights to be protected from predatory, boundary pushing men.

Lord God almighty, if you are an Irish woman, over the age of 30, you cannot deny the reality and history of our country's treatment of women.

Lets absolutely support trans people, but not at the expense of women.

Bluebooby · 13/06/2020 09:57

neu.org.uk/breaking-mould

Haven't read through everything on here but if I remember correctly the one called "stereotypes stop you doing stuff" was quite good.

MayFayner · 13/06/2020 10:34

@EarlofEggMcMuffin great post, thank you.

Annasgirl · 13/06/2020 10:53

Yes Earl - what a fab post. If I wasn’t so exhausted it is what I would have written. I’m so ashamed that f these women.

Flywheel · 13/06/2020 10:54

I'm in Dublin too and find the discourse in this country really depressing. I am concerned for my children but (and I can't believe I'm saying this) I am seeing an upside to the fact that they go to a Catholic school (not my first choice). While ET schools may well listen to the parents, how likely is it that that a majority of parents will be GC. Highly unlikely I would say, given current attitudes in Ireland and the fact that ET parents I would say are at the more liberal end of the political spectrum. I'm just thinking out loud really. My kids are down to attend an ET secondary school and I am very concerned

EarlofEggMcMuffin · 13/06/2020 11:22

@XXSex I'm sorry to have hijacked your thread with my very long post Blush Blush

Between the National Women's Council FB feed and JO'C's article, I'm ranting at children and the dog here!

EarlofEggMcMuffin · 13/06/2020 11:28

@Flywheel attendance at a "Catholic" school not necessarily as protective as you might imagine. My children all attend faith schools.
It was one of these schools that invited a transwoman to speak to boys during Pride week.

(It says a lot that I need to qualify that statement by saying that... I am fine (kinda) with the school having a TW speaking to them as long as it is balanced. For instance, in that all-boys school, there is NO talk by a woman, about the systemic and cultural disadvantages for women. And how they might ally themselves with women and girls. Barely even adequate education on the addictive and abusive nature of porn).

Heygirlheyboy · 14/06/2020 09:31

I didn't think JOC was that bad but the quoted line above was wrong of course. I'm glad she acknowledged the horrible abuse at the start and the fact she didn't cover the TWAW made me wonder about her views on this. I don't think JKR would disagree on any of her comments on trans people themselves. She has written on women's issues herself and I am hoping (against hope?) that she may see the other side. Earl would you consider emailing her your post? And yes she's privileged, grew up nearby.

EarlofEggMcMuffin · 14/06/2020 10:06

@Heygirlheyboy

"Earl would you consider emailing her your post?"

Why? (and because tone doesn't translate onscreen; that's a why? do you think she would be open to a respectful debate?)
She did a good article on the HDU workers in the Mater yesterday also.
I know some of the staff there, and they were impressed.

Heygirlheyboy · 14/06/2020 10:10

Yes I think she might be and if no debate perhaps your very valid points would give her some food for thought. I had commented on her trans children article last year and she at least liked my tweets and didn't disagree re stereotypes, being gender critical. I think there's a chance of an open mind. And that's the problem isn't it really, so many with their fingers in their ears. Anyway I think worth a copy and paste.. she has one and possibly two daughters herself..

EarlofEggMcMuffin · 14/06/2020 10:45

Cant find an email for her- had a quick look but if anyone had it handy?

Heygirlheyboy · 14/06/2020 12:59

DM ok Twitter?

Oncewasblueandyellowtwo · 14/06/2020 22:34

Hi all,

It's really great to see this thread.
I just wanted to say for anyone who wants to connect by email or whatever don't give your real name/email address and identifying info by PM here.
You should make a throw away email with nothing that connects you to MN or your real life. Protonmail.com is a secure email & easy to set up and go from there.

XXSex · 15/06/2020 11:17

Have had multiple emails on this with the principle over the past week. Thank you all for your input.

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kenandbarbie · 15/06/2020 11:35

What is the conclusion xx? Or is there one yet?

XXSex · 15/06/2020 21:35

Still in discussion. I think I’m not going to get anywhere on it. Sad

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XXSex · 16/06/2020 22:22

Made some progress! There are a few on the parent body that agree that we should go slowly with this. Let’s see how we get on with the next stage.

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Heygirlheyboy · 16/06/2020 22:24

I'm wondering if this is a school propelled thing or the beginning of new policies being rolled out. Does she have department guidelines etc or is it the specific school that is spearheading this? Absolutely they must move slowly. Well done you. What response have you got from principal?

EarlofEggMcMuffin · 16/06/2020 22:27

Oh! good to hear XX. Going slowly and considerately is a great idea.

7Days · 16/06/2020 23:13

Exactly.

XXSex · 16/06/2020 23:48

The existing policy predates the existing guidelines from 2016(?) and therefore they said they must overhaul. But they have brought in the trans issue (or worryingly it was there before but we didn’t know about it!)

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