Legend of Zelda - Accessing female spaces by deception

[LonginesPrime]

DD just explained to me the latest mission she had to solve in Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild - she is playing as Link, a male character, and the objective is to get into Garuda, a town that's exclusively female.

The female inhabitants are fiercely protective of their home and are vigilant about visitors. Only females are allowed in. Link needs to gain access but is refused by the guards.

You (as Link) hear about a man who managed to get in there so you have to go and find him.

When you find him, he's dressed as a woman and you have the option of studying his face and asking him if he's a man, etc. The only way to progress the game is to tell him that he's beautiful - when you do this, he offers to sell you some women's clothing and explains that everyone will see you differently when you wear women's clothing.

When you wear the women's clothes, the guards of Garuda think you're female and let you in, so you can go around the shops completing the necessary tasks and interacting with the female inhabitants disguised as a woman.

I know it's 'only a game' and that there's an unreal amount of misogyny in the gaming industry anyway, so I'm not surprised that the female perspective of this issue has been overlooked. But it's still so disheartening that a new generation of young gamers (male and female) is being sent the message that it's ok for men to completely disregard women's rights and boundaries if they conflict with what men want.

Is there a similar scenario in the game but with roles reversed? ie woman trying to access a male only space?

(...not holding my breath)

To progress in the game the player has to tell the man he is beautiful? Is he beautiful?

You don't have to tell a man he is beautiful. Link finds a man with a female costume and dresses up as a Gerudo woman. The guards can't tell that Link is male obvs because a teenage boy in a silky veil and harem pants is indistinguishable from the real thing...

Gaming rarely thinks about actual woman and girls. One of the Fallout (I think) games has an option to play as male or female, but when you go to a settler camp women come on to you because the default character is a hetero male. Great for lesbian visibility but why is the assumption that you’re a straight male or a straight male wearing a female skin (as in the gaming term not literal skin).

Oh dear, the main thing I'm taking from that youtube clip is "I'd sooner watch paint dry."

But yes, much of the gaming industry (as far as I can tell going off second-hand reports from friends who are gamers) is deepy misogynistic. It wouldn't surprise me if part of that misogyny was due to game designers indulging AGP.

You don't have to tell a man he is beautiful. Link finds a man with a female costume and dresses up as a Gerudo woman

But you have to tell him he's beautiful to get him to give the costume to you - that video says it too.

Yeah, I don't know why I'm surprised, really.

Maybe I'm being too cynical but that sounds like deliberate grooming of the gamer to accept men in women's spaces without questioning them. I mean the whole scenario sounds as if it was designed by a TRA.

To be fair in fallout 4, you can romance pretty much any companion male it female (but not the robot or massive troll) and take then to your bed to boost your skills.
I played as a female but pretty sure the men still got the same equal options to have romance with all the companions.

Now crackdown 3, I played as a female agent but they didn't bother changing the genetic "find him" shout by the crime overlord. That was poor!

I can’t comment on the game but my kids tell me that the comic books have a clan that is all women apart from one male who is born every hundred years who rules them my son (9) said “it’s weird!”

In the video linked, at 3 min 20 sec the options on meeting the very tall character dressed in pink were “you’re a ...man?” Or “you are beautiful”. The video tells you the “you are beautiful” option is necessary. So the game is to some extent teaching players that this is the correct way to speak. The character is veiled but does not appear to be beautiful.

Just saying, there was a very similar version in the Zelda game from the mid-nineties.

Note the "come back and see me some time, random teenager" bit too. Ick.

I can’t comment on the game but my kids tell me that the comic books have a clan that is all women apart from one male who is born every hundred years who rules them hmm my son (9) said “it’s weird!”

Well spotted, that boy. And if it wasn't an AGP who wrote that bit I'll eat my proverbial hat.

How old is your daughter OP? I think you may be overthinking something very simple here.. I don't think the gaming industry sits and thinks of ways to undermine women (which is the way your OP sounds) also in most games now you have a choice to either be male or female..it's just in legend of Zelda you play as link because that's how the originals were and they have tried to tie this game to their roots.

Overthinking or insidious gentle grooming?
Link does don disguise in other parts of the game too. He puts on a mask (which isn't very convincing) and the Moblins (?) don't see him.

She's 15 - my post wasn't about her specifically as she's pretty alive to sexism and misogyny in the media anyway.

I don't think the gaming industry sits and thinks of ways to undermine women

I wasn't suggesting this storyline was deliberately crafted to undermine women, it was more the fact that they hadn't thought about women at all that was disappointing.

I should imagine most of the real-life scenarios where women-only spaces are repurposed as accessible to all don't arise from a desire to actively undermine women either - it usually starts as a means to accommodate others and the women's perspectives are merely forgotten about. I accept that any messages about women/girls are inadvertent, but children might still receive them, regardless of the intent.

I appreciate that, like all the other non-player characters, the women are merely props in this game. But whereas moblins are make-believe and any in-game abuse of their boundaries isn't going to damage real-world human-moblin relations, women are real, and there are plenty of examples of their boundaries being pushed in real-life.

I guess it's reassuring to know this scene was taken from the original game and that it's likely that no thought went into the storyline at all, rather than someone having come up with it from scratch recently during the development of Breath of the Wild and people actively having agreed it sounded fine.

And obviously this is a very mild example compared to lots of games!

As an aside I've just stopped playing Witcher as the misogyny is so bad I just can't play it and I love the actual gameplay

The subtext that women are so stupid that all you do is put on a dress and they all think you a woman is just one element of misogyny
floating on the flood.

Is this a modern game? Sounds incredibly satirical to me. One would almost think it's a social commentary or piss-take.

Is this a modern game? Sounds incredibly satirical to me. One would almost think it's a social commentary or piss-take.

2017 game that won multiple awards and got rave reviews - it was the game of the year and massive smash hit.

Um all games have stupid guards who allow you to walk through with a minimal disguise on.
Or carrying 50 guns in your pocket
Or the age old fave of crouching

This isn't a gender specific issue. I have snuck into hundreds of things dressed in many costumes over the years. I have dressed as a chicken in some games yo get into the hen house!

They have added a whole town with just women that thrive without any male presence and have no problems..I think you've past the point that they were trying to make totally. But no..this is definitely about the misogyny :/. I would defend gaming in general (but especially a game that is quite non threatening I mean get your daughter fallout/the Witcher as other posters said and watch for the sex/violence even against women! But your complaining about a10+ one "because a male invades a female dominated land" :D jesus wept) as it has got me through somes of the worst times of my life depression/anxiety/abuse, Also I didn't say the scene itself was taken from the original. It's the general tone of link saving Zelda (which is more of a point from female perspective when you think about it as the male aways saves the female) I think in the grand scheme of things no child 15 or otherwise will be looking at "undertones" of a game in general it's aimed to keep attention and be played. Also..you kind of bought her the game (and if not you let her play it) I mean..do your research before letting her play it? I wouldn't give my baby a faulty rattle and then complain that the company did it..it's my job as the child's parent to look for (cough) complex corruption and minipulation of the mind..:D

Well! That's you told, OP.

They have added a whole town with just women that thrive without any male presence and have no problems..I think you've past the point that they were trying to make totally

In terms of the game, the all-female town was included as an obstacle to be overcome by the protagonist - you originally said that I was overthinking it and that the gaming industry didn't sit down deliberately trying to find ways to undermine women. But now it seems you're suggesting that Nintendo were actually trying to make a point about female empowerment. If that's the case (which I doubt), they failed spectacularly, IMO.

Also I didn't say the scene itself was taken from the original

No, I know - ToastyFingers did. Which I said was reassuring- I know it's difficult to read people's tone online but I wasn't being sarcastic- I genuinely do think it's reassuring that someone was merely tasked with converting old storylines from the original game and that this wasn't a newly-conceived idea.

And re vetting every scene of every game before letting my DC play on it - (1) I have 3 teens so if I made them wait until after I'd watched/read/played all the content they wanted to consume in its entirety before letting them see it, they'd still be watching Disney re-runs and reading Dr Seuss now as that's simply not workable, (2) I have no problem with Zelda generally - I obviously make judgement calls about DCs' viewing and I don't regret the decision to let them play Zelda, but that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to discuss it or criticise any aspect of it! And (3) I don't personally believe that completely shielding teens from all sexism and misogyny is the most effective way to prepare them for the real world - obviously I don't want my 15 year old playing games where she's raping prostitutes and calling people the N word, but I'd rather her see the odd bit of sexism in a movie or game and think and talk about the issues than to pretend everything is fine for women and that her life will be a breeze.

I'm not anti-gaming at all and I'm not suggesting everyone should boycott the game or that Nintendo should be ashamed of themselves. But I also don't see what's wrong with talking about an issue - I don't feel that I have to snatch the game away from my DD or forever hold my peace.

I think there was a similar part in Final fantasy VII where Cloud had to disguise himself to get close to a character. I think it was a 'oh my god how dumb is this bad guy?' moment rather than a 'this dress makes you pass as a woman' moment. I'm looking forward to playing the remake!