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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Five by Hallie Rubenfold. Great book

30 replies

BovaryX · 01/06/2020 11:16

If anyone is looking for a book recommendation, this meticulously well researched book about the lives of the women killed by Jack the Ripper is well worth reading. It is not about the murders, it is about the circumstances which caused the lives of women to unravel during the 19th century. It is written with a quiet fury and is very moving.

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ProfessorHasturLaVista · 01/06/2020 11:18

It’s absolutely brilliant! The way she makes those women live again and their deaths not the most important point about them is just wonderful. The unveiling of the society they had to live in and how they arrived at a point where they were just victims of a predator is very moving.

BovaryX · 01/06/2020 11:29

Yes. Of all the literature generated by these horrendous crimes, it is quite incredible that none of it has examined the lives of Mary Ann Polly Nichols, Annie Chapman, Elizabeth Stride, Catherine Eddowes and Mary Jane Kelly. Hallie Rubenfold has dedicated the book to them. It is an impressive piece of feminist writing.

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SisyphusLangClegRocks · 01/06/2020 11:36

Thank you for the recommendation OP, I'll definitely have a looked for that one. It always angered me the way the victims were sidelined and dehumanised.

Reminds me of all the publicity surrounding Ted Bundy. Plus ca change etc...

RoyalCorgi · 01/06/2020 12:00

I loved this book too. Really eye-opening. It's absolutely shocking that for 120 years these women have been grouped collectively as victims of Jack the Ripper, rather than individual women, each with a personal heartbreaking backstory.

GCmiddle · 01/06/2020 13:58

I agree - it's a fantastic book, meticulously researched, but very readable. She paints wonderful portraits of the lives of the 5 women. I loved that the man who murdered them, and the actual murders, don't feature at all. I reccommended it to my book group and everyone was impressed.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/06/2020 13:59

Been meaning to read this for ages.

DidoLamenting · 01/06/2020 14:01

I've recommended this before. It's an excellent social history.

Of the 5 women only 2 had ever been prostitutes and only 1 was still active. The 4 who weren't involved in prostitution were not murdered because they were prostitutes , which is the common myth, but because they were homeless rough sleepers. All evidence shows they were attacked when they were lying down.

One in particular was turned out of the kitchen of a model lodging house when the kitchen closed as she didn't have enough money for a bed for the night.

SirVixofVixHall · 01/06/2020 20:46

Yes, she suggests that they were all probably targeted when asleep. That goes against the narrative that the women were prostitutes who picked up a man who then killed them.
I have always hated the glamourising of these murders, and the way the women have become just bodies ever since their deaths. They have beeb dehumanised by their murderer and by society at large.
This book is so interesting, the extreme poverty is shocking to read. Also amazing that we still have no idea who Mary Jane Kelly really was.

Socksontheradiatoragain · 01/06/2020 20:49

I've just downloaded it. Thank you for the recommendation.

ProfYaffle · 01/06/2020 20:50

I've just finished this book, loved it, couldn't put it down.

What's so incredible is that the facts/history have always been out there in very accessible sources. Why on earth has it taken this long to actually focus on the social history of the women?

I'm also bewildered by the vociferous criticism by 'ripperologists' Confused

FatalSecrets · 01/06/2020 20:51

Absolutely fascinating book.

The abuse the author gets on Twitter from (male, quelle surprise!) “Ripperologists” is something else.

FatalSecrets · 01/06/2020 20:51

Cross post ProfYaffle Smile

ProfYaffle · 01/06/2020 20:52

Great minds Grin

SorrelForbes · 01/06/2020 20:58

An absolutely fantastic book. I love the way that JTR just didn't feature at all and that the focus was totally on the women and their loves.

I do some theatre stuff and have been asked to be invovled in devising a performance piece based on the book. Obvoiously on hold at the moment but I'm hopeful that something will happen next year. If it does then I'll be playing Catherine Eddowes. I hope I do justice to her story.

SorrelForbes · 01/06/2020 20:59

*lives!

AMCoffeePMWine · 02/06/2020 01:51

Thanks so much for the recommendation. I just downloaded it from the library and got thru two chapters (which is amazing in itself, considering I’m “homeschooling” the kids). Terrific writing.

BovaryX · 02/06/2020 06:06

It's great that so many of you have read this book and are impressed by it. As many PP have said, it's a fascinating social history and it's very refreshing that it reverses the usual fixation on the killer of women. The killer is a nonetity, it is the lives of the women which is the story. As Dido says, it challenges the myths about these women's lives.

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OhamIreally · 02/06/2020 06:15

I'm reading it now too @BovaryX I can also recommend it.

SydneyCarton · 02/06/2020 06:25

I loved this book, and sent my mum a copy as well. I’ve read quite a lot of books on JTR, almost all by men and almost all pushing their particular theory on the killer’s identity with little or no social history or background on the victims. I read Patricia Cornwell’s book (Walter Sickert as JTR) a few years ago and it’s is rubbish as far as the basic theory goes, but she does have a lot more detail on the women than any other author I had read up til then. Nothing like the detail that Hallie Rubenhold goes into, of course, but I find it interesting that of the vast canon of “Ripper literature” it’s only the female authors who seem to look at the victims rather than glory hunting to solve the crime, and PC does her fair bit of glory hunting as well.

mogtheexcellent · 02/06/2020 13:03

It is amazing. My fave read of 2019.

SirVixofVixHall · 02/06/2020 14:04

Th author is talking about the book tomorrow evening, if you look at her twitter there is a link, you can register to listen, and can also put forward questions in advance.

HermioneWeasley · 02/06/2020 14:05

It’s excellent, adding my voice to the others recommending it. The women’s stories are unbearably sad

BovaryX · 02/06/2020 14:29

Hey SirVix thank you for the heads up. I am not on Twitter, is it possible to access the link elsewhere? I would love to listen to the author speak about this book.

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ProfYaffle · 02/06/2020 18:33

thanks from me too, I've signed up.

Disfordarkchocolate · 02/06/2020 18:36

It's a great book. I listened to it on Audible then sent a print copy yo my daughter. The lists of their belongings is heartbreaking.

We need more history that looks at individuals. The reality of lives has the power to teach us so much.

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