'I am not just a woman'

[JellySlice]

'Just'? Why 'not just'? Surely the phrase should have been "I am a woman"?

Just a woman also includes anyone who identifies as such according to IET

Oh, no, really? FFS.

Ever seen an ad that says ‘I am not just a man’ ? No because the concept of being ‘just a man’ doesn’t exist whereas the concept of being ‘just a woman’ clearly exists and this advert doesn’t even try to overturn it. It reinforces it in order to elevate the other stuff. Crap.

Would it be less awful if they had dressed her in something incongruous to engineering like a ball gown, or a tutu or a sparkly dance frock and put

Engineer, Innovater, Pioneer, Leader etc, etc, and added at the bottom

"Oh and dancer"

Or they could just have photographed her on an oil rig or a hydro scheme or a half built bridge.

Sexist, misogynistic but oh so inclusive.Y chromosome welcome.

It tries but fails in its messaging of hierarchy. Being "not just a woman" makes being a woman the baseline and the lowest of what she is and everything else comes above that. They miss the point that there doesn't need to a a hierarchy at all.

Perfectly put 🙌🏻

Horrible poster. Insulting.

Condescending bollocks dressed up as "empowerment". No thanks.

As someone said, nobody does with with men. "You're not just a man, you're an engineer, yes you are!". It sounds like someone talking to their dog.

It totally does. I can just see the head patting.

I hate this poster. I see what they've tried to do but it's a fail. It's almost like she's justifying her place in the world.

Yep definitely a fail

Just like we are dogs wee pat on head

Pissed me right off with their erm trying to think of right word but condescending might work

Clever girl. Pat pat

I'm as horrified as the next woman, having worked in the 90s and noughties to get more women into STEM and seen some improvement in the numbers of women entering those professions.

But I wonder where this is going to be displayed? Perhaps women aren't the audience. Perhaps it's aimed at men, though it's just as horrifying to imagine that men think of women as 'Just a woman'. I know I'm clutching at straws here but it's the only vaguely acceptable reason I can come up with. I hope heads will roll/ advertising agencies be sacked for this display of misogyny.

I ‘get’ the ad - it’s clumsy and very dated. They didn’t need to do it that way. It is quite condescending in its time.

it's just as horrifying to imagine that men think of women as 'Just a woman'.

It isn't exactly "horrifying" -- insulting and stupid, but it does not fill me with horror, just a sort of weary resignation about how we haven't got all that far in fifty years have we.The trouble is that it is accurate in the case of a lot of men.

In the same way that quite a lot of women do quite often think (as they clear up some needless mess, as a rule) "Oh well, he's only a man, he probably can't help it."

That is horrible. I am in STEM, but I don't think any woman who isn't an engineer, leader, etc is "just a woman".

I work in the AEC and at the office level women and treated like - well, the architect, the engineer, the planner... ‘just a woman’ would not go down well.

On-site I have no idea if they are treated differently to the men.

It isn't aimed at women who know perfectly well that while they are a woman, they are other things as well. It is aimed at dismissive people who for whatever reason think anyone is nothing more than a representative of their sex. I am in favour of pointing out, often and loudly, that pigeonholes are for pigeons, and being offended when someone does it sits badly with me.

-- and where did this "the important thing is STEM subjects" stuff come from? They are not the be-all and end-all either. Let's hear it for artists, poets, composers, historians, linguists...

No-one is saying other subjects aren't important.

We are discussing a particular advertisment, produced by the Institute for Engineering and Technology, aimed at changing attitudes to women in STEM - hence the emphasis in our discussion on... women in STEM. It's a tone-deaf advert. Even if it is aimed at dinosaurs who see a woman and think "just a woman", subliminally it entrenches their attitudes rather than challenging them. It leads to a form of exceptionalism. Women are "just women", except for that one in the white coat - she's almost an honourary chap, you know.

(Do we need a new acronym? In no time someone will be along to say "But what about the poetz?" Tongue in cheek btw. I say that as someone whose day job is STEM, but who writes fiction as well. I know women in STEM who are also published poets. We really don't need to derail this into a CP Snow style two cultures debate, please.)

Well, suggesting that it is silly to assume women can't do STEM subjects is as silly as any other pigeonholing seems to me to be a sensible suggestion -- would you rather the advert said "Yes, look, we even allow women to do maths, aren't we advanced?"

It may be tone-deaf, but it is less offensive than the attitude it is decrying and trying to make fun of.

It is in the IEEE magazine (Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers) and is aimed, not at fusty old men, but at women. It invites female engineers to apply for an engineering award.

Though if a PP is right, the IET does not understand that female is the correct adjective for women.

My guess is that the intent - in a field where women are very underrepresented (as the small print says) - was more like 'I'm not just the token woman' ... that the award is for more than 'just being a woman', a sort of counter to the fact that there's positive discrimination implicit in an award for a 'young woman engineer' when there isn't an equivalent 'young man engineer' award.

Not sure I've explained what I mean very well.

I shall have to try to run this past DD.

Though if a PP is right, the IET does not understand that female is the correct adjective for women.

I looked for some info on their awards and they do seem to use the word 'female' when describing who is eligible.

conferences.theiet.org/ywe/about/index.cfm

Only a matter of time...

The bottom line, as someone said upthread, is to replace "woman" with "man".

"I'm not just a man, I'm a ..." would almost be nonsensical. No-one would ever have a slogan that started this way. The slogan only makes sense if the starting point is that the first word somehow implies lesser.

A bit like that M&S ad campaign "this is not just (any old boring supermarket) bread, this is M&S (will induce Harry-met-Sally-diner-scenelevels of ecstasy for no obvious reason) bread."

In trying to point out that women can do these things (a good message) they've picked a slogan which (inadvertently, I hope) reinforces the message that without doing these things, women are somehow lesser.

"I'm a woman... and I'm also a..." would not have done this. The problem lies with the inclusion of the word "just"

YWE is open to anyone between the ages of 18 and 35 who identifies as a woman. Many Thanks :)
2:10 pm · 27 May 2020·Twitter Web App

Sorry couldn't work out how to link this tweet from IET do just copied and pasted