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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Rochdale grooming gang victim bumps into abuser who should have been deported

61 replies

MoleSmokes · 16/05/2020 00:21

Rochdale grooming gang victim bumps into abuser who should have been deported
talkRADIO 15 May 2020

VIDEO DESCRIPTION

A victim of the infamous Rochdale grooming gang recently met her abuser face to face while shopping in ASDA. This was not part of a victim perpetrator meet in order to try and understand crimes.

Adil Khan was jailed for eight years in 2012 after being convicted of trafficking and conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with a child, he was released in 2016. He was supposed to have been deported back to Pakistan he appealed against that and lost that appeal in 2018, but still remains in the UK.

Ian Collins speaks to former detective constable Maggie Oliver, who was the lead investigator on the Rochdale child sex abuse ring case for the Greater Manchester Police.

Maggie claims that the convictions made in the Rochdale child sex abuse ring of 9 men in early 2012 barely scratched the surface of what she describes as a "highly organised crime group that numbered hundreds of perpetrators" and countless young victims.

  • - - - - - -

Why did the CPS not prosecute child rapists for rape?

How can the Home Office manage to implement a "Hostile Environment" in which it wrongly deports members of the Windrush Generation but leaves convicted child rapists wandering the streets when the courts ordered them to be deported - and their appeals failed?

The Probation Service omits to inform the victims that their abusers are being let out on parole, and the paedophiles, who should have been deported, are allowed unsupervised access to children because their Licence Conditions of parole have expired??

Just one case like this is bad enough but Maggie Oliver reckons this is not just happening in Rochdale.

  • - - - -

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

(this is long so might go over more than one post - if it does, it ends when I type END)

IAN COLLINS

Now, a victim of the infamous Rochdale grooming gang has met her abuser face-to-face. But while out shopping in Asda - this was not some kind of victim-perpetrator meet in order to try and understand crimes this should never have happened.

Adil khan was jailed for eight years in 2012 after being convicted of trafficking and conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with a child. He was released in 2016. He was supposed to have been deported back to Pakistan. He appealed against that, and lost that appeal, in 2018 but still remains in the UK. How could this happen?

Maggie Oliver is former Greater Manchester police detective, and of course, what you might say, a Whistleblower. Also a consultant on the documentary, or the programme, the drama, that looked at this story, called "Three Girls".

Maggie nice to have you with us, hi.

MAGGIE OLIVER

Hi there Ian, thank you for having me on the show.

IAN COLLINS

Tt's a pleasure. Now, listen, this just seems beyond comprehension, that we would not only have, we'll get into how long it took to even get this case known, and and moving anywhere near a courtroom, in a moment. But how could we be in a place where someone who's guilty of the kind of crimes that I just mentioned there, he's told that after serving a prison sentence will be deported back to Pakistan but he's shopping in Asda and bumps into one of his victims. How could that even be a thing in this world?

MAGGIE OLIVER

Ian, that's a question that I ask myself time and time again. The way you've described it actually I feel under plays the magnitude of this. First of all I'd like to say that this is not a solitary example of this. This is something that I've heard several times from several victims in Rochdale. But the man that you're talking about, the paedophile Adil Khan, he was sentenced in 2012 as a result of having got this particular 13 year old child pregnant at the age of 13. I was a police officer, as you know, and the drama Three Girls covered this story, or part of the story of this particular victim.

He wasn't charged with rape even though we had a foetus, even though we had DNA to prove paternity of that foetus, despite that the CPS chose not to charge him with rape.

The result of that was that this man, and I have to say that he was convicted of sexually abusing other children but not charged with any rapes, as the result of those charges, this man was actually sentenced to eight years but he was out of prison less than four years after the trial. In the middle of 2016 he, together with two other of the abusers, both had dual nationality, and the, in sentencing it was decided that they would be extradited following their prison sentence. They came out of prison and they challenged that decision, based on their human rights that they had a family here and they should not be sent back to Pakistan. After two years and millions of pounds of taxpayers money, they lost that appeal, and that was back in 2018.

Now, a few weeks ago, the girl that this man had got pregnant when she was just 13, was shopping in Asda and she walked around the end of an aisle with her own children and came face to face with the man who got her pregnant when she was 13.

He was in unsupervised contact with another child of about 7 years old, she told me. And she fled from the store in absolute panic. She got outside the door, the firST person she rang was me, saying,"Maggie, Maggie I've just bumped into Billy! He's in Asda, he's in Rochdale."

IAN COLLINS

Billy was the name that he used wasn't it, during this time?

MAGGIE OLIVER

Yeah, his street name. Now, the questions that that raised are many.

First of all, what about the human rights of the child? She is living in Rochdale and she now has to walk around that town everyday thinking that she might bump into this man.

The second thing is that, because this man wasn't charged with rape, he was out of prison in less than four years for horrendous abuse.

Thirdly, probation failed to approach her to even discuss the fact that he was being considered for probation after being in prison for less than four years. The first she knew that he was out and about was when she came face to face with him.

And fourthly, I then referred this through lawyers to the Safeguarding Board, to say, "What is this man doing in unsupervised contact with another child when he's already been convicted of child abuse?" To be told that his License has now expired he's no longer under License and there is nothing that they can do.

So, so you know I know I in a way I sound a bit like a broken record but these these issues are current. This is not just one child that this has happened to. I can tell you of other children in Rochdale, and actually in many other towns or cities around the country where this is going on, and it is hidden. You know, if you go to the Home Office and ask for a statement about this particular case, or even this particular man, they will say, as they have said, you know we don't discuss individual cases.

But this is another national scandal, that you scratch the surface of what is going on and you find these absolute horrific stories, that you know these kids have had their lives destroyed already and, you know, they're hiding behind curtains. They're walking around the streets having done nothing wrong and yet they are still being punished, and still being failed and it just makes my blood boil. And it is, you know, her words to me when she rang me was that her heart just stopped beating.

Now you know, I'd just like your listeners to put themselves in that position and consider how they would feel, and you it's terrifying, and and, is this what Justice is?

IAN COLLINS

And I'm what I suppose Maggie what makes this I mean, as if it could be any more extraordinary and earth-shattering and horrendous, but bearing in mind the shortcomings, the mistakes, the errors and I think we can really say, the cover-ups, the the the curious world, we're talking about all manner of agencies and areas you know people that try to report something and were sent on a racial awareness course because they dared raise their head above the parapet and goodness er all manner of calamitous, horrendous errors that were taking place and evidence that was missed or people speaking up that were ignored. We are all familiar with the outskirts of this story.

You might think, given all of that, that there couldn't be a case where anyone would leave anything to chance at the other end, ie. when these people came out of prison. That those responsible for our legal systems and the judicial system that jails people and sees people release would make sure that every I was dotted and T was crossed. Bearing in mind they were dealing with what could have been the most catastrophic justice breach that we had seen for many years.

But still that didn't happen, despite what had gone before it.

MAGGIE OLIVER

And you know, I came on Julia's show, two or three months ago, there was a previous case. This was this case from 2012. I worked on another big case in 2005, and I won't go into because it's another, but it was called operation Augusta. And I spent 15 years shouting from the treetops about the cover-ups and the fact that Greater Manchester Police had buried that job. And unless 97 potential, not potential, abusers, to walk the streets for 15 years, they have been forced to reopen that case. This is a repeating pattern.

This case that I'm talking about here, this child, that was Operation Spam. And arguably it is the most well known case of on-street grooming, child sexual abuse, whatever you want to call it, it's actually child rape. But this is one of the most high-profile cases in the country. And even on this case, where the public know pretty much what has happened, even on this case, when you scratch the surface, and unfortunately, you know, I'm still here, shouting it from the rooftops, because in every town and city there are children just like this 13 year old, who have to face the same consequences, you know, regularly.

And the establishment, the authorities, do not want the public to know that. They make it very difficult to find out.

IAN COLLINS

What is that? Why is that, Maggie? What is the, what is the reason?

MAGGIE OLIVER

God if I had a pound for every time I've asked that question I'd be a multimillionaire. I don't know because for me, you know, bear in mind I spent 16 years as a
police officer. I joined to make a difference, to protect these children, so it makes no sense on any level.

Why, number one, they don't deal with it properly.

Number two, why it continues to be covered up and what i'm, you know, I'm part of, I'm a co-participant now, on the National Abuse Inquiry and, you know, I'm actually, even in relation to that, they are not including any of the northern towns and cities where predominantly this kind of abuse happens.

IAN COLLINS

Do you think it's about racial sensitivities, is it as blunt as that?

MAGGIE OLIVER

I don't. I've spent a lot of time thinking about this and I've gone into, I wrote my own book, called "Survivors", which goes into this but I don't think it is as simple as that. I think that ethnicity is absolutely a part of it but I feel it goes much further than that.

I think this is about attitudes to what are considered kind of an underclass. You know those in the positions of power don't see children living in these communities, who are often from difficult backgrounds and have had, they are, the reason . . .

IAN COLLINS

. . . and that's often been used against them as well, hasn't it, in the past.

MAGGIE OLIVER

100%, you know.

IAN COLLINS

Just, just to interject Maggie, I'm just aware we're on the clock here a little bit, which is, which is a great shame because there's so much more to say.

This man, Adil Khan, legally at the moment is still meant to be deported.

MAGGIE OLIVER

Yes. And I you know, I mean, I thought he had been deported. There's three of them actually that challenged the deportation . . .

IAN COLLINS

. . . and lost the appeal. It's important, they lost the appeal. So they should be, one would have thought, straight from the challenge, where they lost, straight to an airport, you might think?

MAGGIE OLIVER

You would hope so, but clearly two years on that they're just trotting around the middle of Rochdale and . . .

IAN COLLINS

. . . and can walk, and can go shopping in Asda, and bump into one of their victims

Maggie, let's speak again on this, this is, it's so distressing and infuriating and of course, deeply upsetting because of the kind of nature of what we're talking about here.

Maggie Oliver, thank you. Former greater Manchester Police detective, one of the whistleblowers in the Rochdale grooming gang case. And there it is, there you heard the infuriation and the frustration and the upset in her voice, in just relaying some of what happened. The difficulties in getting through an impenetrable system, which I think is what she was alluding to there. And the fact that one of the child abusers, the paedophile Adil Khan, is walking around Asda doing his shopping, with a child, whether his own or somebody in his family, who knows, but not really a good look when you've just been jailed for eight years for child sex offences, you might think.

END

OP posts:
BovaryX · 16/05/2020 07:16

The whole thing is a disgrace. What kind of BS sentencing enables someone convicted of relentless, systematic sexual abuse of young girls to be walking free? Should be doing 25 years.

Cuntysnark · 16/05/2020 07:56

It’s beyond comprehension.

kesstrel · 16/05/2020 08:56

Appalling. But given the incredibly low rates of conviction in rape charges, could they have been afraid the jury would refuse to convict? Do we perhaps need new laws to cover this kind of prolonged, systematic abuse of children?

BovaryX · 16/05/2020 09:30

There is also this. The victims of this prolonged, organized sexual abuse have been repeatedly betrayed by the very authorities who should have protected them. It's shocking. And yet the lethargic response is still evident.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/furious-mp-demands-government-explains-18259116

Oblomov20 · 16/05/2020 09:34

Good God. Billy was in Asda with a 7 year old?

Why isn't something being done about all this?

Maggie has explained that they only scratched the surface before. So why isn't it being followed up?

DrDavidBanner · 16/05/2020 11:09

This just beggars belief, so he's still out abusing young girls? Our young girls are being raped on an industrial scale and the authorities allow that.

Makes me wonder how the hell they're being allowed to get away with it.

Makes me wonder how far up the wholescale abuse of children and vulnerable people goes.

MoleSmokes · 16/05/2020 14:39

I would love to know the justification for the CPS not charging him with rape when Maggie Oliver says they had DNA evidence to prove paternity of the foetus.

I am obviously wrong but I thought that a child of 13 could not legally consent to intercourse, so that it would automatically be "statutory rape". Maybe someone who understands the law better than I do could clarify?

It is almost a year since the Home Office made this statement:

Offences against Children: Rochdale
17 June 2019
Rochdale MP Tony Lloyd, Written Question for the Home Office:

"To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department, if he will take urgent steps to deport non-UK nationals who have completed custodial sentences for the grooming of young people in Rochdale."

Answered 20 June 2019
By Caroline Nokes (Conservative, Romsey and Southampton North)

"I am aware of the cases referred to, but I am unable to comment on individual cases.

The crimes committed by child sexual exploitation gangs who prey on the young and vulnerable are appalling. I have every sympathy with their victims. Once we are in a position to do so, we will also be in contact with the victims to provide them with an update.

This Government puts the rights of the British public before those of criminals, and we are clear that foreign criminals should be deported from the UK wherever it is legal and practical to do so."

members.parliament.uk/member/450/writtenquestions#expand-1132513

As someone said on another thread, if these girls had been the privately-educated daughters of Judges, MPs, Newspaper Proprietors, etc. it is a sure bet that their rapists would have been deported long ago.

We know that the Home Office pulled out all the stops to deport innocent, elderly people without a blemish on their character as part of Home Secretary Teresa May's "Hostile Environment" - how in hell's name is the Home Office dragging its heels over deporting these evil bastards??

OP posts:
Stealhsquirrelnutkin · 16/05/2020 14:57

We know that the Home Office pulled out all the stops to deport innocent, elderly people without a blemish on their character as part of Home Secretary Teresa May's "Hostile Environment" - how in hell's name is the Home Office dragging its heels over deporting these evil bastards??

Exactly, we need to find out who is responsible, and see to it that they answer for their failings. There needs to be a special task force to clarify how these things are allowed to happen, who bears the ultimate responsibility, and find ways of punishing them to such an extent that others will be less willing to look the other way in future. A task force consisting entirely of feminist women, with knowledge of safeguarding, who are experienced in recognising and unmasking male sexualised violence, and the myriad ways society conspires to protect perpetrators.

Herja · 16/05/2020 15:13

It's equally horrific and incredible that that piece of shit is freely walking about in the same area like that. I simply don't understand why, as said above, after the appeal failure they were not then immediately deported.

I absolutely agree that there is a huge class issue, the poorer you are, the worse you are treated (and let down) by government institutions. I've had an odd life; as a child I was first the dirt poor child of an addict new age traveller, but then a full change to the MC environs of my lovely grandparents. My younger life was traumatic, so I have unusually clear memories for my age at the time (with my grandparents from age 7). I am still scared of social services, police, any officials, despite having had only positive experiences in adult life. Because I can remember the terror of them when you're properly poor - not just my mum, but the whole community. The way you're spoken to is different, the way you're physically handled is different. I was failed by social services as much as my mother. She was viewed as a lost cause I think, and thus, so was I too.

There is no way on earth a MC child would have been left with a parent off their face on smack and crack, a known dealer. Who left permanent scars - she beat me with a saw once; who failed to feed their child to the point that a concerned dinner lady dropped off clothes and food parcels (we were even given dead squirrels to eat by a farmer once, because we were literally starving as the money went on drugs); who did not necessarily have a clue where their child was... no, that just wouldn't happen. But it did to me, I can remember social services visiting, the police visits and raids. No one gave a fuck. I genuinely believe that that was all a class issue, that I was as seen as worthless and disposable as she was. And she definitely was seen that way.

That was perhaps long and unnecessary, but explains why I am so confident in my agreement that these poor girls were failed, and failed at every step, by everyone, because of their class. They were scum by association to begin with and then when their lives spiralled, it was seen as all their own fault; still only scum anyway, so best ignored.

MoleSmokes · 16/05/2020 19:21

Herja - what an appalling, terrifying childhood! Flowers

I am not sure though that you would have been helped if your parents had been perceived as "respectable" or "nice" Middle Class, precisely because the abuse was happening within the family, ie. rather than from a mass-rape gang outside the family.

The reason I say that is that I have come across several children (three spring to mind immediately) who were being physically and psychologically abused within "nice Middle Class families" and it was allowed to go on for years, in one case until that child was an adult, imprisoned at home and still being abused. In these cases, and I have no idea if this small sample is representative, it was the mother who was the abuser. The fathers were ineffectual and "turned a blind eye".

Case 1: The "authorities" were terrified of the mother, who had been a Head Teacher and editor of a local Newspaper. She and her adult daughter were both eventually admitted to a psychiatric hospital - foolishly to the same one, until staff realised that the mother was continuing to abuse her daughter and they were separated. (My professional involvement was with the daughter, who had been kept prisoner, in bed then in a reclining chair, by her mother all her life. She was discovered by the attending GP, following the death of her father.)

Case 2: Some professionals (Health and Education) were terrified of the mother, who was University Lecturer, while others were in denial about what was going on in front of their eyes (I saw Heath Visitor reports that actually referred to "this nice Middle Class family"!). The daughter had been subjected to a catalogue of unnecessary, invasive medical assessments and surgeries before anyone picked up that the mother had Munchausen's by Proxy aka Fabricated or induced illness. (I take credit for spotting that, although it should have been queried far sooner and before the child had suffered so much.)

Case 3: The "authorities" were focussed on "keeping the family together". This involved years of ineffective attempts to "support the mother", who was articulate, well-dressed, immaculately made-up and coiffed - and skilled at avoiding these "interventions". As in Case 2, the home was supernaturally clean and tidy and the children were well-clothed. In this case though, they were shackled to their chairs and forbidden to speak when at home. (Despite repeated representations to local Social Services, I never managed to get those children the help they needed. The brick wall was the policy of "supporting parents to keep families together".)

Where I agree with you is that I believe that things would have been very different if those children had been "Middle Class", had been subjected to abuse by perpetrators from outside the "nice, Middle Class home" and if the perpetrators had been perceived as being of "lower status".

This exchange from the TalkRADIO interview:

MAGGIE OLIVER

. . . I think that ethnicity is absolutely a part of it but I feel it goes much further than that.

I think this is about attitudes to what are considered kind of an underclass. You know those in the positions of power don't see children living in these communities, who are often from difficult backgrounds and have had, they are, the reason . . .

IAN COLLINS

. . . and that's often been used against them as well, hasn't it, in the past.

MAGGIE OLIVER

100%, you know.

The IICSA (Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse) has published "Sexual Abuse of Children in Custodial Institutions: 2009-2017 Investigation Report" :
www.iicsa.org.uk/publications/investigation/custodial

Only 3% of children in custody are girls so the vast majority of abuse is perpetrated on boys: by other boys and by both male and female staff. Currently, boys from a BAME background make up over 40% of children in custody.

"the profile of the children in custody is varied:

  • The population of white children in custody has decreased over the last 10 years disproportionately compared to the black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) population. By March 2017, children from a BAME background made up around 43 percent of the population of children under 18 in custody.
  • Prior experience of abuse, including sexual abuse, and neglect is common among children in custody. Around four in 10 children in the youth secure estate have previously been in local authority care. Many come from backgrounds of general social or economic disadvantage.
  • The prevalence of mental health problems within the population of the youth secure estate is significant.
  • Girls make up a very small proportion of children in custody – around 3 percent in March 2017. However, the health needs of girls in the youth secure estate are more complex than the needs of boys, and girls have higher rates of co‐morbidity, self‐harm and attempted suicide.

www.iicsa.org.uk/publications/investigation/custodial/part-b-context/b1-children-custody

Something that is striking is that the IICSA found a big difference between custodial institutions depending on whether they were under the Dept of Education or the Ministry of Justice.

Conclusions

15. Throughout this investigation, the differences between the YOIs and STCs, and SCHs became increasingly obvious. SCHs were more focussed on the interests of the child and adopted a less punitive approach. Staff training was subject to regulation and use of pain compliance was prohibited. The cultural barriers to disclosure were less apparent in SCHs. Such an environment creates a better climate in which a child potentially will feel safer and more able to disclose sexual abuse. In SCHs the staff/child ratio is higher than the ratio in YOIs and STCs, with more opportunities to build positive relationships with children.

16. The underlying reasons for the differences in regimes almost certainly lie with the departments of state involved. The Department for Education has responsibility for setting the overall policy and legislative framework and ultimate oversight for SCHs; the Ministry of Justice has ultimate oversight for STCs and YOIs. These departments have very distinct roles in serving the public interest, the former focussing on education and social care and the latter on the justice system.

www.iicsa.org.uk/publications/investigation/custodial/part-f-conclusions-and-recommendations/conclusions

Whether it is the thousands of girls who have been raped and sexually abused by Pakistani-Muslim "Grooming Gangs" across the UK or the hundreds of boys who have been raped and sexually abused in custody, it is the MOJ that is consistently failing children - no Justice for children of the "underclass"!

Children as young as 10, the Age of Criminal Responsibility, are in custody in the UK - one third of them "innocent until proven guilty":

19. Finally, the number of children who were remanded in custody prior to trial, and were therefore unconvicted, comprised around one‐third of the child custody population. This number of children exposed to the risks associated with custody seemed very high.

The Home Office absolutely needs to be pressured to take urgent action to address the travesty of justice that allows the likes of Adil Khan to remain in the UK when they should have been deported.

The CPS needs to account for its failure to charge child rapists with rape.

There is also something very rotten at the core of the Ministry of Justice in its disregard of the interests and safety of children who "those in positions of power do not see".

OP posts:
AnduinsGirl · 16/05/2020 19:34

attitudes to what are considered kind of an underclass
Completely this. I work closely with the Eastern European Roma community in a deprived part of the NE. It is a thousand times the effort to get Social Care to act on very serious concerns we have, even when physical injuries are present, a child has disclosed something with absolute clarity, or you witness vioence/abuse first hand. Even when concerns are taken up, the families do not engage and of course the language barrier is a hindrance so social care involvement just quietly tails off until no-one turns up to the meetings any more, oh dear, have to close the book on that one. and no-one takes your calls, no-one gets back to you and that's the end of that. I'm incredibly bitter about it as the children in my school often get such a horrible deal from the authorities.
It's almost as if the attitudes from the police and Social Care are "that's just what these people do, that's what they're like, you're never going to change them.
It's just not good enough.

BeetrootRocks · 16/05/2020 19:36

Thanks for posting this op it's appalling but sadly not surprising.

Helpfulrabbit · 17/05/2020 10:26

@AnduinsGirl if you work with the Roma community then you will also know that their customs are very different to the way things are in the West. They are very insular and for good reason, they are persecuted wherever they go. So please bear that in mind when you consider interfering in matters to do with them that you do not quite understand. They are a fascinating people with an extremely rich and interesting culture and by forcing western ideals and morals into them you are essentially using another form of Colonialism against them. I’m sure you don’t mean to at all, it’s just something to keep in mind whenever you think there is something you need to address.

NonnyMouse1337 · 17/05/2020 11:57

by forcing western ideals and morals into them you are essentially using another form of Colonialism against them.

Abuse of children should never be tolerated or ignored, irrespective of their socioeconomic class or ethnic and cultural background. If there are serious concerns and evidence of harm, there must be mechanisms in place to thoroughly investigate the issues. The mechanisms used can be tailored to take into account differences in cultural understanding and traditions, however culture and tradition must never override the safety and well-being of children. Ever.

I despise cultural relativism that allows people to turn a blind eye to problematic issues in ethnic groups - honour killings, FGM, child sacrifice and so on.

Whether they realise it or not, those who subscribe to cultural relativism are essentially viewing women and children who are 'not white' as undeserving of the same levels of protection and rights that are afforded to white women and children. Culture and tradition should never be placed above universal human rights. Women and children who are not white deserve every bit of protection from violence and abuse as anyone else.

Thelnebriati · 17/05/2020 12:04

Are Centre for Womens Justice aware of this?

BovaryX · 17/05/2020 13:14

I despise cultural relativism that allows people to turn a blind eye to problematic issues in ethnic groups - honour killings, FGM, child sacrifice and so on

Nonny

I absolutely agree. Cultural relativists justify the indefensible while girls are mutilated and murdered. It takes a certain kind of moral bankruptcy to do this.

Helpfulrabbit · 17/05/2020 13:28

It is not cultural relativism at all, you just have to be aware that other cultures exist in Britain and they have every right to live their lives the way they would anywhere else. By waltzing in and interfering in their affairs you are essentially pushing your own beliefs and ethics on to them as if it’s superior when it’s not.

BovaryX · 17/05/2020 13:34

you are essentially pushing your own beliefs and ethics on to them

HelpfulRabbit

Which part of physical injuries present on a child did you miss? Did you actually read the post you responded to? It is the definition of cultural relativism to ignore physical abuse because its victim is not white. By the way? Some of us who have the greatest contempt for cultural relativism are from an ethnic background. There is nothing more cowardly than Western liberals ignoring lethal abuse because of cultural relativism.

Helpfulrabbit · 17/05/2020 13:40

@Bovary I did not miss that particular nugget of information, it just got lost in the “these Roma people need me to teach them how to behave” rhetoric.

Well I’ve got news for you, maybe we should look inwardly before taking pot shots at every other minority culture in this country. White men all over the Western World are the biggest abusers of women and children, both physically and sexually so it’s a bit rich trying to take the moral high ground over the Roma.

I’ve spoken to Roma people in my line of work and they are the most
Welcoming and loving people you will ever meet. If anything we should be learning a thing or two from them. I’m sorry but this Cultural imperialism makes me so mad. And don’t get me started on the OP’s attempt at implicating the Pakistani community in this sort of thing as well, they have wrongly had a spotlight under them for far too long now and it’s threads like this that continue to shine a negative light on them from all angles.

andyoldlabour · 17/05/2020 13:52

Helpfulrabbit
Your disgusting attempts at "whataboutery" and "deflection" are an insult to the victims of these awful crimes, which were committed by one ethnic group largely against another ethnic group.
The fact that the CPS failed to prosecute the perpetrators with charges of rape, simply beggars belief and I have no doubt at all that their decisions were politically motivated.
I cannot even begin to imagine the trauma which the victim would have experienced in this situation.

Helpfulrabbit · 17/05/2020 14:00

@andyoldlabour it’s funny how you never hear about the horrendous white British grooming gangs that operate up and down the country? They are far bigger and far more industrious but because of one little scandal in Rochdale it gave authorities a convenient scapegoat in the Pakistani community and they’ve been suffering ever since. You’ve fallen for it hook line and sinker.

BovaryX · 17/05/2020 14:01

I’m sorry but this Cultural imperialism

Rabbit

Sorry, but your buzz phrases are so last decade. You want specific ethnic groups to be designated off limits to the law and the authorities? That is a morally bankrupt position promoted by morally bankrupt cultural relativists. It is inherently racist since it suggests behaviour which would be deemed indefensible if its victims were white should be excused and condoned. The consequences of this cowardice is the betrayal of vulnerable victims by the authorities whose job is to protect them. Your attempt to justify this? Sorry. No sale.

DesdemonaDryEyes · 17/05/2020 14:06

Here we go .....

Helpfulrabbit · 17/05/2020 14:08

Not off limits of course. But they should not be interfered with too much by our way of life. They have the right to practice their own religions and cultural habits here and they don’t need Interference from so called do gooders who think that they have the superior ethics. Honestly I thought people would be a lot more progressive than this, for a forum full of women some of you behave precisely like men.

Lllot5 · 17/05/2020 14:12

One little scandal!!
Hundreds of vulnerable girls were systematically raped. The fact is they were systematically raped by members of the Pakistani community. To say anything else is just a cover up.