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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Attorneys for girls in US sports case must refer to males as transgender females

92 replies

CumannNamBan · 11/05/2020 17:07

Judge on the case:

"What I’m saying is you must refer to them as “transgender females” rather than as “males.” Again, that’s the more accurate terminology, and I think that it fully protects your client’s legitimate interests. Referring to these individuals as “transgender females” is consistent with science, common practice and perhaps human decency." 🙄

www.nationalreview.com/news/attorneys-for-connecticut-high-school-runners-ask-judge-to-recuse-after-he-forbids-them-from-describing-trans-athletes-as-male/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

OP posts:
Freespeecher · 12/05/2020 11:08

Lordfrontpaw

The film was 'They Live' - a John Carpenter classic.

Lordfrontpaw · 12/05/2020 12:29

That was the one! That music in his films! So what was the one when they were trapped in a church?

Freespeecher · 12/05/2020 12:57

Now was that 'The Fog' or, if they were trapped, 'Assault on Precinct 13'?

Carpenter did a lot of his own music and Tim Simenon (Bomb the Bass) took the theme from the latter and made it into 'Megablast', which I loved as a kid.

(Can also highly recommend 'The Thing', great film).

Lordfrontpaw · 12/05/2020 13:24

I don't remember there being any fog... Ill need to have a look now.

Lordfrontpaw · 12/05/2020 13:26

Prince of Darkness? But then I don't remember Alice Cooper in it...

R0wantrees · 12/05/2020 13:31

Judge on the case:

"What I’m saying is you must refer to them as “transgender females” rather than as “males.”

What are the implications of such a ruling by a judge?

Are males who identify as transgender now both to be considered women & female?

This would be a parallel outcome to the Scottish 'The Gender Representation on Public Boards Bill'

Fairplay For Women 2018
fairplayforwomen.com/scottish_stole_woman/

MrGHardy · 12/05/2020 19:31

That is disgusting and a lie - it is patently not "science".

They should ask the judge to recuse themselves for clear bias.

If you refer to them as females, because that is "humane" how can the judge pass any other judgment than "it is humane to let them compete with other females".

MrGHardy · 12/05/2020 19:34

Should have read the article first:

"“A disinterested observer would reasonably believe that the Court’s order and comments have destroyed the appearance of impartiality in this proceeding. That requires recusal,” reads the motion, which was obtained by National Review. “To be sure, the public debate over gender identity and sports is a heated and emotional one. This only increases the urgency that court preserve their role as the singular place in society where all can be heard and present facts before an impartial tribunal.”"

Pretty much exactly what they replied with.

ThinEndoftheWedge · 12/05/2020 20:22

As usual the wise women on here - Forfucks, Mrs Snippy, SarahT etc are spot on.

History from the judge. How he is still in a job - heaven knows.

mobile.twitter.com/WomenReadWomen/status/1260261680640069638

MrsSnippyPants · 12/05/2020 21:20

I was just reading that ThinEnd. Proves our point really, every time a man defends this ideology, as this judge has blatantly done, it tells us a lot about him.

Lenient towards purveyors of child sexual abuse images, claimed a killer’s sexual sadism was a mental disorder and called the murderer himself a victim, banned the public from having access to a list of sex offenders. Textbook...

aliasundercover · 12/05/2020 21:33

@ScrimpshawTheSecond

it might almost be preferable to have everyone in together, than to have a small cohort of people relentlessly insinuating themselves into the category of female against the wishes of the majority of females

I agree. There are plenty of times I've been naked in a mixed sex setting (sports stuff mostly - mountain climbing, canoeing, SCUBA diving - where everyone mostly gets changed and washed as quick as they can, wherever they are) and never had a problem with it. Put a creepy guy who has slimily squirmed himself into a group of women and it's very different.

Or on a more basic level - a mixed sex night out is great, but spoils the whole evening if a bloke somehow gets involved in a women's night out.

SarahTancredi · 12/05/2020 21:34

Well I would like to say in surprised having just seen that twitter thread. But if course I'm not. It's the least surprising thing I've read today tbh

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 12/05/2020 22:30

'The judge claimed the killer's 'sexual sadism' was a mental disorder that made the murderer himself a victim."'

Argh.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/05/2020 01:18

The judge claimed the killer's 'sexual sadism' was a mental disorder that made the murderer himself a victim."'

WTAF?

ThinEndoftheWedge · 13/05/2020 08:43

it might almost be preferable to have everyone in together, than to have a small cohort of people relentlessly insinuating themselves into the category of female against the wishes of the majority of females

Not that I want to - but if I was forced with the choice, I would chose to get changed alongside adult males who did not want access to female changing rooms. I would feel safer. Yet it is always framed that the adult males who want access to female changing rooms are not a threat, only ones that do not want access. How does that work??!!

Bananabixfloof · 13/05/2020 09:22

Public toilets were originally unisex and communal, a good place for a sit-down (I said asitdown) and a chat
Did people not have homes, with comfy chairs and heating and fewer smells?

Anyway like a pp, If we cannot win this fight for any reason I will be campaigning for mixed sex everything. Fuck it I'd prefer to have my own space obviously but if that's not going to happen then a free for all it is. My first objective would be get rid of urinals then men cant use them as a way to keep us out or for a "speed of use" excuse.
Not that I thought this through or anything.

R0wantrees · 13/05/2020 09:40

Public toilets were originally unisex and communal

Where was this?
The demand & provision of female single sex toilets outside the home is a key development neccessary for women to safely take part in the public sphere.

Uncommonground Media by Katie Barker
'Flushing Women’s Toilets down the Pan – a Backwards Step'
June 18, 2019
(extract)
"The history of women’s public toilets is the history of women’s fight to be allowed to access public spaces traditionally reserved for men. In the UK, the Great Exhibition of 1851 set of a craze for public toilets. George Jennings, a plumber from Brighton, showcased the first public flushing toilet. By 1852 ‘Public Waiting Rooms’ were appearing, but the assumption was that women would not compromise their dignity to be seen entering a public toilet, so the vast majority of these toilets were for men.

Women had always struggled to relieve themselves outside of the home. Men could, if necessary, simply urinate in a quiet street or alleyway. Even without imposed ideas about women’s dignity, clothing and biology made it extremely difficult for women to enjoy a similar measure of freedom. This was perfectly acceptable to most Victorian men. Women were, after all, the ‘Angel in the House.’ The public sphere was the male sphere, so preventing women from accessing public toilets was a way of ensuring that the ‘urinary leash’ remained short. Women could only stray as far from home as their bladders would allow. Longer journeys had to be planned around visits to friends and family where they would be able to relieve themselves.

How did women respond to this? They organised themselves. The Ladies Sanitary Association was formed in the 1850s and campaigned for public toilets for women. They lectured and distributed pamphlets and made limited progress in securing some of the first facilities for women. The Union of Women’s Liberal and Radical Associations also campaigned for public facilities, particularly for working women. They agitated to have women’s facilities included in existing male toilets, but angry men protested as they did not want women’s facilities to be next to theirs. Some men took matters further, deliberately destroying models of women’s toilets to demonstrate how inconvenient they would be if built.

It was the twentieth century before the need for women’s toilets really began to be accepted. The advent of the department store, and thus shopping becoming more of a leisure activity, meant that it made economic sense for these stores, such as Selfridges, to provide toilets for women. Women could shop, take a reviving cup of tea in the café, and empty their bladders. The longer women were able to stay in the shop, the more money they were likely to spend. The increase in the female workforce, necessitated by the First World War, also led to the provision of women’s toilets in some workplaces and campaigns by women workers for more and better facilities. This was resisted in some cases, as the increase in the female workforce was intended to be a temporary measure to ease the problems caused by male conscription into the armed forces.

In the twenty-first century, the fight for women’s toilets has not been won. UNESCO recognises the provision of single-sex toilets as being vital to overcome the barriers preventing girls from accessing education." (continues)
uncommongroundmedia.com/flushing-womens-toilets/

ABucketOfShells · 13/05/2020 14:35

Dear humanity, you are allowed to ask the question why. Not everything said is a fact, some people lie for their own agenda.

HavelockVetinari · 13/05/2020 14:41

@dadshere they're 18, hardly impressionable wee bairns!

OldCrone · 13/05/2020 15:24

Public toilets were originally unisex and communal

Where was this?

I assumed Mockers was referring to Roman toilets.

Attorneys for girls in US sports case must refer to males as transgender females
Goosefoot · 13/05/2020 15:38

I remember seeing something some years ago about Viking toilets and they seemed to be communal as well. Though at least in some cases they seem to have just done their business with the farm animals.

Lordfrontpaw · 13/05/2020 15:40

Does it matter? I would have thought the Romans would have segregated them by sex (but what do I know?).

But fast forward to 2020 and charities are killing themselves to build toilets in some parts of the world where little girls are snatched going to relieve themselves outside because they don't have access to a loo and because they are girls (boys just don't face this nearly as much as girls)

R0wantrees · 13/05/2020 16:01

Does it matter? I would have thought the Romans would have segregated them by sex (but what do I know?).

Professor W B Burlette Carter recently tweeted a relevent thread about misinformation about public toilets & sex segregation:

(extract)
"Keep your eye on the Wikipedia page for unisex public toilets. A year and a half ago, the page spouted tons of nonsense claiming sex separation in public toilets did not begin until the late 19th century.
That same erroneous theory claimed that the reason for sex separation in intimate spaces was sexism/patriarchy, not safety and privacy.
So called scholars who spouted this theory built careers on it.
Activists widely disseminated this theory, helped by the male-bodied biases in internet access and a sexist press (including women) willing to advance their careers by disseminating disinformation favored by those who controlled their access to upward mobility.
The goal of this disinformation campaign was to affect public policy, public opinion (especially among the young) and the courts.
In 2018-19, I produced an article that clearly debunked this theory. With evidence, I proved that sex separation well predated the late 19th century and that the primary reason for it was women’s safety and privacy. See my pinned tweet.twitter.com/wddaughter/status/1173061974390956033 (continues)
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1259703722566914053.html

Lordfrontpaw · 13/05/2020 17:05

Imagine building a career on loos?

ScapaFlo · 13/05/2020 17:09

Thomas Crapper did Grin