So cancer treatments and other serious procedures are cancelled but nurses are still going into people's houses to give injections to trans kids?

[Mrskeats]

As the title says.
How can this be right given what's happening?
I know it's happening from personal experience.
The case I know about included a nurse coming into the home that has another shielded person in it.
Flabbergasted really.

Because you can't just just stop hormonal treatment without it having a massive withdrawal effect. With other ailments, despite them sometimes being much more life threatening, you're not going to feel massively different next week to how you do now.

Well you can’t stop cancer treatment without it having a huge effect either clearly. If this is true it’s ridiculous, people are dying because of no treatment for actual illnesses!

Well the problem is clearly that the cancer treatments have been stopped rather than someone else getting treatment.

I dont think kids should be on any form of medication in the name of trans treatment, but I do think that if they are currently being treated then any withdrawal would still have to be medically managed rather than going cold turkey.

I'm guessing theres also the risk of buying online as opposed to being administered by a medical professional.

I know online is a risk anyway but right now accessing services if something went wrong would be far harder than usual and we do know how these poor kids are coached.

Saying that does not mean I condone the use of these God awful drugs on children

Yes ok fair point, I also really object to kids being medicated at all in the first place. It’s just hard to not see this as another example of the trans population being treated more favourably than other groups while claiming to be discriminated against compared to everyone else.

I think that, in many cases, the reason that chemotherapy for cancer has been stopped is that it suppresses the patient’s immune system, so leaves them at more risk of contracting the virus - and if they did, it would be more serious for them.

Well yes we know that happens. We saw the disgusting Twitter posts when mastectomies were cancelled and it all kicked off.

However these kids are victims so I dont blame them and they shouldnt be used to make that point. That makes us no better than the activists if that makes sense.

Oh it's definitely happening
It's not just cancer it's loads of things like hip replacements. How can this be a reasonable use of nhs money?

I also find it hard to believe that the 'withdrawal' symptoms would be physically crippling - particularly if these are puberty blockers and can be, as is always claimed, paused and reversible. If that's the case surely the child receiving them (not calling them a patient) could restart them without issue. Therapy could be issued over the phone or via Face Time.

By not having a nurse in the home for this reason it would protect the nurse, the child and the shielded person from C19 as well as anyone else who lives in the home. This should obviously be the priority.

There really is no end of what parents are willing to risk in order for a kid to get the injections is there?

If blockers were stopped for a few weeks or months even, what would happen?

If these are cross sex hormones I think the changes would be visible but the internal organs might benefit. Maybe the child would even start to feel a bit better, of course the argument would be that they would kill themselves if there was even a slight delay.

It's just emotional blackmail really.

Yes exactly. I thought all this could be paused? Obviously not.

Yes of course its blackmail.

These kids have been lead to believe the drugs are the solution in far more ways than anyone else on any other medication would. The expectations are far to high

So yes I think it would be a worry if they were just stopped with such a psychological dependence and no access to counselling services and all day to be online with their glitter friends being told they are gonna die if they dont get them.

No idea to what extent this is happening, (where did you find out about this being widespread, OP?) but for triptorelin, which is the drug most commonly used in the UK to halt puberty, it’s a monthly depot injection, and you just stop. No tapering required. (Source: been on it).

In theory, your system then resets to normal.

Many people report that this doesn’t in fact happen immediately, and for some people it never does.

I’m not a doctor so I wouldn’t like to speculate, but I think pp are right that the issue lies with commissioning this treatment, these poor kids shouldn’t suffer more with the worry about what might happen if their treatment is interrupted.

I was concerned from a recent covid press conference that nhs services would resume based on the spare non-covid capacity in a particular region... there’s going to be a real postcode lottery about who’s treatment is resumed first.

I agree that it seems totally unfair, and in some cases has shortend peoples lives, but this is part of the fact that it was known that the NHS couldn't cope with the increase call on its service if there was a pandemic because of underfunding.

So they were left with clearing most other hospital services to make room to treat Covid-19 patients.

And from so many studies of past pandemics it is known that people who would normally not die from a medical condition, do die when resources are focused on the pandemic.

ie this is rationing of the health service (which was already happening). But doesn't explain why they built these Nightingale Hospitals which have hardly been used. Why when they had these they were sending suspect Covid-19 patients back to care homes. Why (in the early stages) ambulances would frequently say someone wasn't ill enough to be taken to hospital, with fatal consequences.

So not doubting the work of those in the Covid-19 wards and ICU, but they were basically only dealing with those who had been filtered through a rationing system, often based on age, and some have suggested race.

In 2016 when the Government did an execise on how could the UK respond to a pandemic and got the answer not very well, they did nothing. Other European countries who did similar exercises did respond, eg Switzerland who stockpiled equipment etc., that would be needed.

No doubt next year or sometime figures will be published of the excess deaths, ie those who wouldn't have died in normal circumstances, but nothing will change.

And as I said, all those working with Covid-19 patients, who are bearing the brunt of the virus out break, must know at the back of their minds that as they do this someone else who could have benefited from their care is not getting it.

The Government, and the media who have colluded in covering up (when you think of the screaming headlines about Spanish Care Homes with people found dead) what has been going on, are part of selling us the NHS as brave fighters against the virus, whereas they have been put in the position of someone giving out water in an area of drought, saying to older people, and people with disabilites, please dont bother queueing for water.

Mencap's response to NICE's guidelines on how to decide whether to treat "frail" patients www.mencap.org.uk/press-release/mencap-responds-deeply-troubling-new-nice-covid-19-guidance

These guideline led to some GPs sending out DNR notices to older patients to sign.

So it does wmake you wonder how many people who could benefit from a home visit from a nurse have not been prioritised whilst a trans patient does. eg some people being cared for at home by care assistants may also need medical treatment that they cant access because they are self isolating.

I didn't say the call outs where widespread but I know of a few cases where this is happening.
The person in question is 16 also.
Many, many other people surely could have benefitted from a home visit by a nurse; my own father included whose district nurse visits have been cancelled. Pandering once again to the trans lobby.
There are discussiond on here about the Tavistock on here also suggesting years of waiting. Not true in the case of my family member-blcckers and testosterone within 6 months. Let's hope Kiera Bell is successful.

I think we all hope she is successful.

Being 16 that poor kid is in the awful situation of being way behind their peers physically and mentally if they had "blockers" and perhaps at risk of being even more unable to deal with that had the "treatment" stopped. Counselling services are lacking as it is without lockdown as am obstacle.

It is incredibly significant given the constant reminder that apparently they wait so long but this was all so quick.

But

We dont actually know what would have been prioritised if that kid hadnt been treated by the nurse. Its easy so assume.it would have gone to someone perhaps we would have approved of more but the truth is we dont actually know if it would have.

I am however seriously worried about all the kids at home , potentially alone while parents work , being in even more contact with their internet buddies.

I agree Sarah there will be a lot more time for tumblr etc.
I also struggle with the idea that a health care professional is injecting someone with something so, so damaging. It's mind-boggling.

Typical mumsnet trans haters out in full force. I despair i really do...
No treatments that are necessary should be stopped including cancer. I agree on that score but trying to make out trans people are less deserving or should be exempt from treatment is absurd and you clearly know nothing.

Making a child infertile and ensuring they have no sex life is not 'treatment'. Hope that helps.

I didn't say the call outs where widespread but I know of a few cases where this is happening

How do you know this? Your opening post refers to one case. Now it's "a few cases"

Where is this information coming from?

I know of a few.
One in my family so I have more info. Trying not to out myself.

I also find it hard to believe that the 'withdrawal' symptoms would be physically crippling.

My partner's on TRT due to a problem with his body producing testosterone. If he stopped cold turkey it would have a massive effect on him, as the body's natural production usually shuts off when taking exogenous testosterone. He would literally have none left in his body.

Puberty blockers aren’t testosterone though are they, nothing drastic will happen to a person’s body if they miss their Lupron injection.

In an ideal world of course no child should be on them.

The child in question is on testosterone.

The point of re-opening NHS services with priority categorisation isn't based on the type of injection, medication or chemical, it's the purpose, surely? Cancer or other life critical conditions should always be prioritised? "If I don't get this medication my body literally shuts down/messes up to point of developing other associated issues"

Blockers and hormones do not qualify. Same as non-critical psychiatric meds or services.