Sally Rooney’s Normal People BBC

[HDDD]

This book has been on my to read list for a while. I took a lazy punt and decided to watch the 12 part BBC adaptation instead. Now I’m overjoyed I never read it. It fascinated me and irked me in equal measure. I don’t want to give spoilers but the thing that grated the most was the ‘pretty’ thing. I don’t know how much was made of this in the book but Marianne said of herself that she wasn’t pretty at school and blossomed in college. Others also said it of her. She didn’t change the structure of her face! I think I have an irrational dislike of the word pretty anyway, but I’d be interested in other views on this – the pretty thing, and whether this book is indeed a modern feminist classic or mainly hogwash.

I didn't watch the adaptation, but have read the books. If you don't like the fascinating/irksome feeling then I wouldn't bother. Whether it's on purpose or not, I find that to be Sally Rooney's style. None of her characters are particularly likeable.

I hear you on the pretty thing though. Pretty much very female protagonist is pretty, or even worse "interestingly beautiful" or "arresting".

The worst in recent memory was Where the Crawdads Sing. Girl / woman grows up on a marsh. Doesn't own a thing, and washes in the sea / streams. Yet she is described as being an untamed beauty and attractive to all the guys from the town. Her hair in particular is mentioned as part of the attraction. When in reality, she would be grubby, smelly, with matted hair and bad breath. No on would care what colour her eyes were!

Sorry OP, rant over. And for going off topic

Completely agree, the crawfads book would have been so much more interesting if the woman/child living alone wasn’t stunningly beautiful and amazingly talented. It just seems lazy to go down the path of beautiful women just have problems with men being attracted to them and not exploring in more depth the actual truth of living in a swamp but I guess that’s just a different story. I’d read it tho!!!

I read the book with my book group. It was one of the crappiest books I have ever read and the only reason I finished was the book group thing. The blossoming into beauty at college was merely one in a long list of annoying things and the writing was shit!

I agree - I think it is a massively overhyped pile of shit. I do not understand the appeal at all. It’s not literature - it’s boring chick lit with delusions of grandeur. The characters are cliches and not believable in the slightest! I watched the first episode and actually thought the drama was better as reduced to pure plot it’s ok.

The worst in recent memory was Where the Crawdads Sing. Girl / woman grows up on a marsh. Doesn't own a thing, and washes in the sea / streams. Yet she is described as being an untamed beauty and attractive to all the guys from the town.

Stella Gibbons was taking the piss out of this kind of thing nearly a hundred years ago with the character of Elfine in Cold Comfort Farm.

I started watching this and it was familiar and I saw I'd read the book on kindle. It obviously didnt make a huge impression on me as I'd forgotten it. Marianne as a school girl isn't right as she is obviously beautiful from the beginning. The not wanting to tell people you are going out with someone your friends don't approve of happened to me age 16 so was believable. Teenagers are very swayed by peer pressure. Disappointing she had to become beautiful to become popular

It's the sort of pretentious shite I wrote on my gap year before starting my English degree. Utter twaddle.

I was so disappointed with Where the Crawdags Sing.. I hated that both Tate and Chase wanted to take sexual advantage of an underage girl. Unlike The Scent Keeper where the sexual relationship is one of mutual discovery, this was written with a male fantasy of deflowering a girl and controlling her. Even her best friend wanted to take advantage of her. I haven't read Sally Rooney's Normal People .. not sure my intense irritation of everything remotely annoying fueled by lockdown, could cope!! I am bored with books and TV series who depict the murder of women, women in atereotyped roles etc.. Twin, recent scandi drama was good, as was Island on the Edge (story of a woman who made her home on the Isle of Soay) and Rundinavia (woman who ran 3,000km in Scandinavia).

I probably should have posted in the books section but if anyone has any good book recomendations with women in them that you think I might like based on my ramblings.. please let me know!!

I tried the book but couldn't get beyond the first few chapters. It was both boring and irritating. The trope of the ugly duckling turning into a swan has been done to death in chick lit.

I rather liked the book, though the one thing that put me off it (I hope this isn't too much of a spoiler) was that Marianne asks to be choked during sex. This is all supposed to be related to her traumatic home life, but I didn't find it plausible, and there's already far too much normalisation of choking as a sexual activity going on as it is. I'm going to watch the first couple of episodes, though, out of curiosity as much as anything.

I read the book and thought it was awful. Can't see how she is lionised as a modern literary genius. And as for feminism, if this is modern feminist writing, I despair for my teenage DD.

I'm reassured that I posted this in the right place - thanks ladies

I read the other book - Conversations - that Sally Rooney wrote and remember turning the last page (expecting to read on) and realising actually that was the end. Did anyone else notice that?

Thank goodness I read this thread - I started reading it a few weeks ago and it irritated the shit out of me - I didn't get past the second chapter. Lots of people I know have raved about it.

Won't bother watching it either.

In the minority here as I loved the book. My understanding from the book and TV show is that Marianne is always attractive - the point is that when she is at school the idea of attractive is so narrow and restricted (big boobs, long blonde hair) that she is overlooked for not being 'obvious'. Equally the sneers teenage boys feel attacked by her being clever and not interested in them, so bully her and make her out to be ugly to appease their egos.

then when she goes to university she is appreciated by others for her intellect and she can shine.

Yes I agree that Marianne was always attractive, but not a stereotypical 'pretty girl'. I also think her becoming more attractive in uni was that she was far more confident, and sure of herself there, than in school. It's the confidence that is attractive and not necessarily her looks as such.

when she is at school the idea of attractive is so narrow and restricted (big boobs, long blonde hair) that she is overlooked for not being 'obvious'.

This is quite a common and lazy device in my opinion. Writers will come up with all sorts of reasons for their attractive heroines being perceived (in the universe of the book) as unattractive, but the reasons are seldom convincing, and really all it's doing is reinforcing the ugly ducking to swan literary stereotype, and the negative message that, to be a worthy protagonist, a woman must be attractive.

Blonde hair/big boobs being the only look people ever go for is simply nonsense in the real world. It's actually less annoying when writers are open from the outset about their heroines being attractive.

The actor playing Marianne is as stereotypically pretty as you can get, so that aspect doesn't work at all.

I found both books stylish but empty (as you might expect from someone whose life experience consists of being a student at a posh university and writing about students at a posh university) and over-reliant for plot on implausible miscommunications and choices. I find her a bit cool-girl MRA too: Connell in Normal People and Nick in Conversations With Friends are both exploitative and borderline abusive and we're meant to sympathise because they're sensitive.

Yes @AsCoolAsLangCleg I completely agree with that. Some aspects of the relationships in both books are disturbing.

I thought I would hate the book but I loved it (apart from a few misgivings about their relationship).

At first I felt the actress was too pretty, but as OP said Marianne is always pretty (even beautiful), she's just not perceived that way in high school because she is "weird". I thought that felt quite true to life, actually.

I second the very disturbing relationships, particularly combined with the bit about choking which left me feeling very unsteady tbh. The whole book gave me flashbacks of a rather unpleasant ex and left me feeling like I needed a hot bath and a cry.

It would be fine if that was the author's intention but I think she wanted you to feel sorry for Connell instead.

And apart from anything else, the characterisation of an edgy, intelligent young woman getting off on BDSM because she's been abused is so lazy and cliched.

I hated the book. I thought it was cliched- cool- girl- crap

Have got to the silly bit where they break up because he goes home for the holidays. Considering we had all the reading each other's minds crap before and going home for the holidays because you had no money was normal then it seems unbelievable that he didnt say he still cared but was heading home to see his mum and work. Not sure why she thought he was breaking up. I think I gave up caring at this point and decided they were unsuited and needed to grow up a bit