Clarification for someone who is new to this area on being a lesbian and 'gender identities'

[lola777]

Hello,

I have been scrolling through these posts, but never felt the need to comment. However, I am now interested in joining in some of these discussions, but I'm currently a bit lost.

I identity as a lesbian, however, most of my family and friends think I identify as bisexual. This is due to me being in denial for many years, and also right now I haven't wanted the stress of coming out twice!

Since I've accepted I'm a lesbian, it's changed my stance. Initially, I was very much, TWAW, give everyone full rights, etc... This HAS changed. I've come to realise I am not attracted to men, full stop in ANY form, however, in my social circle I would get heavily criticised for saying I only wish to date biological women.

It's left me feeling confused- My sisters daughter has a transgender friend, who no doubt experiences dysphoria. They ask to go by 'he/him' pronouns and identify as 'transmasculine.' I would never dream of calling them 'she' to their face, as I would feel uncomfortable at causing this level of discomfort in a child who definitely struggles with their identity. As you can see, I automatically default to they/them references here, as it's been so heavily trodden into me that referring to this person by anything other than he/him is transphobic, even on an internet forum.

At the same time, I do not want to be called transphobic (which has happened in discussions with friends) because I don't want to date a transwoman, even if post-op. I don't wish harm or distress upon those with gender dysphoria, but at the same time, I could not physically make myself feel attracted. If I met someone at a bar and then find out they were a transwoman, my attraction would no longer be there. That is not transphobia- That is my sexual orientation.

I am just struggling with what is genuinely considered transphobic, and what is me being... well, a lesbian! And simply living my life as a lesbian.

In some cases, telling me I HAVE to be attracted to transwoman seems to be crossing the boundaries into disregard for my sexual orientation? Or suggesting it's a preference and that I have the ability to control whom I am attracted too?

I have a very clumsy grip on my sexuality after years of being in denial. It's something I struggle to assert. Yet, in all my circles of LGBT+ friends, it is very heavily populated by transwoman who spew the rhetoric that I am transphobic, so I keep this opinion to myself.

I had an encounter on a dating platform recently where I was messaging a woman who then told me she was actually wishing to transition to male presenting. I said I'm a lesbian, so anything to do with men and the use of he/him pronouns, sorry, I am not attracted to this- I then got called transphobic, although surely this defeats this persons own rhetoric? How can they insist that they are a man, but then be angry when I- a lesbian- won't date them?

I am sorry if this is quite heavy, and please let me know if any of the terms or language I use is not appropriate. I am very new to this area of discussion, and look forward to some input.

The basic fact is I am SO confused by my own circle of gay/bi/lesbian friends that I no longer know what is genuinely transphobia.

Another thing I wish to add is how does TWAW fit in with being a lesbian- I would feel no attraction to a transwoman, whether they are pre or post op. My sexuality is towards assigned female at birth, biological women, whatever you want to call it. Therefore, there is a massive inconsistency. I do not mean this to sound harsh.

I don't know why I put sister's daughter, I forgot the word "niece" exists

Another thing I wish to add is how does TWAW fit in with being a lesbian

Hi Lola

It doesn’t. Contrary to Stonewall’s propaganda, lesbians are women who are same sex attracted.

Empress, thank you for that. I think I am so used to living in a very 'forward thinking' area that even a statement like that which I know is reasonable has become to be portrayed as extremely transphobic.

I understand the majority of the population is probably a lot less keen to throw phrases like this around than where `I live.

Any assertion of female rights is called 'transphobic' these days. Its a meaningless word. It reminds me of the Rebecca West quote 'I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat'. It's designed to shut women up.

You have a total right to be attracted to whomever you please. Its no ones business and no one can tell you who you 'should' be attracted to.

I don’t believe you are transphobic. If you do not wish to sleep WITH ANYBODY YOU DON’T FANCY that is your right and it’s the same deal if you are gay, bi or straight.
I’m straight. I fancy tall, dark haired men. I have never fancied short blond haired men. Or tall dark haired women. Or tall dark haired transwomen. Or tall dark haired transmen.

If your social group reject you because you will not sleep or date someone you are not attracted to then maybe they are the problem?

I don't think you are confused per se. It is fine to be attracted to biological women if you are a biological woman. It is also fine to say so.
I believe that this is a protected characteristic.

It’s not you, it’s them. Seriously. Your body, your relationships, your boundaries. You don’t have to compromise those because someone takes it upon themselves to police you.

You’re not transphobic.

Trans activists are busy conflating gender with sex when they accuse you of that. Also calling you transphobic is the desperate defence of a person with no facts or logic behind their argument. It’s the adult equivalent of a school child losing an argument reverting to name calling “well you’re a nerd!/ugly/fat/etc”

Your sexual orientation determines which SEX you are attracted to, not gender. Trans activists like to think that they can change their sex, that’s not biological reality. It’s more of an article of faith in a religion.

Just ignore the name calling.

Insisting lesbians are not same sex attracted I'd homophobic

*is

The Equality Act defines lesbians as women who are same sex attracted. Its the only remaining piece of equality legislation that gives many disadvantaged groups any protection, and we cant afford to have it undermined by a group with a sinister agenda.

however, in my social circle I would get heavily criticised for saying I only wish to date biological women.
Your social circle are homophobic. You don't have to pander to homophobes; the law supports you.

In some cases, telling me I HAVE to be attracted to transwoman seems to be crossing the boundaries into disregard for my sexual orientation? Or suggesting it's a preference and that I have the ability to control whom I am attracted too?
Conversion 'therapy' that sounds like corrective rape isn't legal either.

Stop giving them so much head space and power, they have no right to dictate to you who you find attractive or have sex with. Focus on who you are and what you want.
Here's hoping you can find some new friends who have common human decency.

Second time today I'm using this line: my vagina is not subject to the Equality Act.

I feel like shouting in people's faces over and over CONSENT CONSENT CONSENT.

Thank you everyone, I've read all the replies and it certainly has been enlightening. I am relieved to know that what I think is perfectly reasonable, and not transphobic.

My social circle are from groups I've found after coming out- As such, they are very much focussed focussed on the 'T' element of LGBT+. I am hoping I can find some more like minded people. Like I said, these people were the first people I've met since coming out.

I will certainly be having a read of the Equality Act- I am pleased to know there is some protection.

Are there currently any official attempts to get the Equality Act changed?

No, its all happening by the back door.

Section 12: Sexual orientation
Effect
55.This section defines the protected characteristic of sexual orientation as being a person’s sexual orientation towards:

• people of the same sex as him or her (in other words the person is a gay man or a lesbian)

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/2/1/9

you might also want to read up about homophobic hate incidents;

''If someone has been violent or hostile towards you because of your sexual orientation, this is known as a homophobic hate incident.
Something is a homophobic hate incident if the victim or anyone else thinks it was carried out because of hostility or prejudice based on sexual orientation...''
www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/hate-crime/sexual-orientation-and-transgender-identity-hate-crime/

Sadly a lot of trans right activists would say you’re a terf. Obviously you’re not. Everyone has a right to say who they’re attracted to and only being attracted to biological women is fine.

Some trans people are so desperate for validation they can’t bear any possible message which underlines that they are not the same as biological women and lash out.

It does seem to be biological women whether lesbians or not who are targeted and bullied by TRAs. They can’t stop being misogynists whether they’re wearing a dress or not.

By all means keep your views quiet in real life if you wish. If you end up going on an online date with someone who turns out to be a biological man just cut the date short,,,,,you don’t have to explain yourself. Block anyone who insults you.

Welcome, lola on this fine Saturday night.

They call you transphobic - that is, bigoted - for having and expressing sexual boundaries.

There's a word for people like that.

Shaming someone out of maintaining her sexual boundaries is never okay.

You sound entirely sensible to me. In my youth - not very long ago, a couple of girls from school went out with boys and when they got a bit older, (inc moving away/ uni) started going out exclusively with women. Same sex attracted. No confusion. Lesbian.

If you do not wish to sleep WITH ANYBODY YOU DON’T FANCY that is your right

This.

Anything else is rapey.

How can they insist that they are a man, but then be angry when I- a lesbian- won't date them

How can you expect rationality from these people?

How can you expect compassion or respect from people who are so up their own behinds that they've completely lost sight of the world around them?

Being certain of your sexuality is not anything-phobic.

Expecting you to adapt your sexual preferences to theirs is coercive, controlling, and, in your case, homophobic.

Time to find new social groups.

Since you ask about 'genuine transphobia' it might be helpful if you consider that, for any word, there's a dictionary definition and common usage definition, with a flexible degree of overlap.

By the dictionary you are not transphobic, OP. By common usage, the very fact of your assertion of lesbianism makes you transphobic.

Lesbianism is by nature transphobic (common usage); transgenderism is by nature lesbophobic (dictionary definition). They're not compatible.

Weetabix with Greek yogurt, some blueberries and honey is miles better than WBHM.
Homophobia comes in many shapes and forms, sometimes it's disguised as every day ordinary misogyny. As in " you just haven't found the right dick" try mine I'm sure I can convince you. This attack on Lesbians is more sinister. As in "my penis is female". As my Scottish friends would say, aye right.
IMO it's extremely homophobic to insist that a same SEX attracted female is transphobic because she's really not interested in a female penis.

Everything is “transphobic” nowadays

Outside tiny woke bubbles, nobody thinks there’s such a thing as lesbian with a penis.

You need a broader range of friends - people who shame you for your sexual orientation are not friends.

It is homophobic to demand that female people who are homosexuality abandon their sexual orientation and 'learn to cope' (ffs) with hetero sex because otherwise it upsets the personal view a male has taken of themselves.

This movement is, at heart, political male supremacism. Look up 'incels', who form a definite group within this movement. There is a belief that females are service humans whose primary purpose is enablement of males; that there is an entitlement to use females for sexual purposes; a movement against consent; and its all stood on a very old belief that a female does not have the right to deny her body to a male who wants sex. That a female does not have the right to bodily autonomy to the inconvenience of males.

There have always been males who fantasised about lesbians, there have always been males who wanted to stop women doing the awful thing of denying their bodies to males. You'll note that there's no live and let live here - none. No reciprocal extension of respect. It is not okay for you to say out loud that even in theory you would deny access to your body to a male who stated he was entitled to it via self identification. The mere existence of females saying no is not ok.

I now say flat out that I'm a female homosexual as that makes it very clear, I will not be putting up with homophobic nonsense and sexual harassment in the name of male supremacist values. Get the pitchforks out, I don't care. Anyone pressuring me to use my body to validate a male in sex I won't enjoy and don't want because 'I should learn to cope with it for the male's sake' - has such a distorted grip on reality that I can't invest in anything they think.

My daughter is a lesbian. She hasn’t expressed it explicitly, but I’m certain she would not be attracted to anyone who was not female.

I know her current group includes trans individuals, and that for now, nobody seems to be forcing this issue. She doesn’t believe anyone can change sex, but wouldn’t say that, and unlike me, she doesn’t yet recognise the coercion in that situation..

They’re young and I suspect it's only a matter of time before she will come across a more insistent male. I hope I’m wrong, but it appears to be very prevalen’t in those circles. I don't have much faith in men. I’m awaiting her conversion to full Terven, though I would love to be proved wrong, for her sake,

There is nothing wrong with you at all, and I’m sorry you are going through this. I know from other lesbian friends that they are beginning to meet ‘underground’ again, in order to have women only gatherings and events. It’s a huge backwards step and I hope these problems will be resolved sooner rather than later.