Clarification for someone who is new to this area on being a lesbian and 'gender identities'

[lola777]

Hello,

I have been scrolling through these posts, but never felt the need to comment. However, I am now interested in joining in some of these discussions, but I'm currently a bit lost.

I identity as a lesbian, however, most of my family and friends think I identify as bisexual. This is due to me being in denial for many years, and also right now I haven't wanted the stress of coming out twice!

Since I've accepted I'm a lesbian, it's changed my stance. Initially, I was very much, TWAW, give everyone full rights, etc... This HAS changed. I've come to realise I am not attracted to men, full stop in ANY form, however, in my social circle I would get heavily criticised for saying I only wish to date biological women.

It's left me feeling confused- My sisters daughter has a transgender friend, who no doubt experiences dysphoria. They ask to go by 'he/him' pronouns and identify as 'transmasculine.' I would never dream of calling them 'she' to their face, as I would feel uncomfortable at causing this level of discomfort in a child who definitely struggles with their identity. As you can see, I automatically default to they/them references here, as it's been so heavily trodden into me that referring to this person by anything other than he/him is transphobic, even on an internet forum.

At the same time, I do not want to be called transphobic (which has happened in discussions with friends) because I don't want to date a transwoman, even if post-op. I don't wish harm or distress upon those with gender dysphoria, but at the same time, I could not physically make myself feel attracted. If I met someone at a bar and then find out they were a transwoman, my attraction would no longer be there. That is not transphobia- That is my sexual orientation.

I am just struggling with what is genuinely considered transphobic, and what is me being... well, a lesbian! And simply living my life as a lesbian.

In some cases, telling me I HAVE to be attracted to transwoman seems to be crossing the boundaries into disregard for my sexual orientation? Or suggesting it's a preference and that I have the ability to control whom I am attracted too?

I have a very clumsy grip on my sexuality after years of being in denial. It's something I struggle to assert. Yet, in all my circles of LGBT+ friends, it is very heavily populated by transwoman who spew the rhetoric that I am transphobic, so I keep this opinion to myself.

I had an encounter on a dating platform recently where I was messaging a woman who then told me she was actually wishing to transition to male presenting. I said I'm a lesbian, so anything to do with men and the use of he/him pronouns, sorry, I am not attracted to this- I then got called transphobic, although surely this defeats this persons own rhetoric? How can they insist that they are a man, but then be angry when I- a lesbian- won't date them?

I am sorry if this is quite heavy, and please let me know if any of the terms or language I use is not appropriate. I am very new to this area of discussion, and look forward to some input.

The basic fact is I am SO confused by my own circle of gay/bi/lesbian friends that I no longer know what is genuinely transphobia.

My social circle are from groups I've found after coming out- As such, they are very much focussed focussed on the 'T' element of LGBT+. I am hoping I can find some more like minded people. Like I said, these people were the first people I've met since coming out.

LGB Alliance is lesbian-led

lgballiance.org.uk/about/

Transwomen call lesbians who discount them 'vagina fetishists', as though that is an insult, as though liking vagina, finding it essential for sexual pleasure, is in some way an aberration. Of course it isn't!

There is another meaning for fetish, a non-sexual meaning: a charm or object superstitiously believed to have magical powers. The people fetishising vagina are male.

Just to add what everyone else has said.

A lesbian is a biological female who is sexually attracted to other biological females!

The problem is what used to be a straightforward assertion has been hijacked by the trans agenda. Being trans (ie believing is "gender identity") has nothing to do with same sex attraction.

Nobody can change sex. So as a lesbian you wont be sexually attracted to a man. Anyone who tells you you should is trying to coherce you into sex.

As Rowantrees has said have a look at the LGB Alliance.

And there are other links, for instance some of the videos from the Lesbian Strength March last year in Leeds. You can google for these. If not tomorrow I will see if I can find the links.

Magdalen Berns
'There Is No Such Thing as a Lesbian With a Penis!'
2016

Okay - it wasn't that hard to find. They are all together here:
www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU_ArcIWrBmHlqyY5pww5Q

Not saying you should agree with every word, but it shows you there is a wide range of opinions and experience from women who believe as you do that being lesbian means you are attracted to other women.

Thank you for sharing that, stumbledin - Shonagh's ukulele was a definite highlight, really need to save that link.

You've bumped up against your own boundaries of how far you're willing to pretend a lie for someone else's benefit, when that lie actually impacts you negatively.

As you retrace your steps you are about to find that there's rather a lot of stuff you're not willing to pretend about any more.

It's not an especially comfortable process, but the relief to be found from letting yourself admit some simple truths is immense.

I would get rid of the T from your social circle. It will only get worse and be very very careful on supposedly lesbian dating sites, which seem to be mainly populated by men. Remember you are not there to pander to their needs.

Lola, people who call you transphobic are simply asserting male authority — a very outdated ideology. As a feminist, I don’t accept male authority, so I don’t accept that men magically become women by calling themselves women. And I don’t accept that anyone has a right to demand sexual services from anyone.

Your so called friends are gaslighting you. Their behaviour is abusive and you would be well advised to find new friends. As PPs have suggested, the LGB alliance would be a good place to start.
Lesbianism and Transgenderism are incompatible. Your orientation is based on biological reality, theirs on wishful thinking.

Contrary to what your friends would have you believe OP, not all us lesbians are jumping for joy at the influx of heterosexual males attempting to take over all our groups, jump into our dating pool and crash through the cotton ceiling into our underwear, in fact I don’t know any lesbians who are, and I know quite a lot of lesbians.

You don’t have an understanding problem OP, you have a friend problem. Ditch the rapey homophobic friendship group and find the lesbians who will respect you and your right to sexual boundaries. We are out there and we are many.

“It sounds like you want to police who I have relationships with”

It's a common line, and a common theme throughout this political lobby.

Basically 'words mean what I want them to mean, don't need to have any shared meaning, and a person's identity is based on what they like the sound and feel of with no regard whatever for what impact this has on the groups appropriated for this personal gratification.'

You can announce you're vegan, march for veganism and rant endlessly at everyone else about veganism while chugging steak and bacon at every meal and insisting this is the new progressive sort of veganism, demonstrating a higher enlightenment than other vegans, and are you policing their veganism? Are you saying that they can only be vegan if they've never had meat ever and that's exactly the same as them chugging down meat as part of their veganism?

Honestly, if you do that people will think you're a bit of a prat and move on with their day. Whatever. Do your thing.

If on the other hand you start pressuring vegan groups and everyone in sight that the only correct veganism is inclusive of meat and meat products and it's bigoted and awful and you should probably report them under the equality act for saying that no, actually veganism means not eating meat products, then you're asking for people to start pointing out boundaries.

There's such a thing as being forced to a discourtesy. You may not need to bang on the table and shout in someone's face "you are a carnivore!" You may feel that someone who enthusiastically furthers the cause of meat eating at every opportunity while calling themselves vegan has a problem, and really shouldn't be standing for leader of the local Vegan Group, nor training up the young members of the group on what veganism really means in these modern times, and that it's wrong to be vegan without eating meat.

Honestly... you can't make sense of this, there isn't a full deck involved.

You can specify that as a lesbian you are obviously only interested in women.

In terms of day to day interactions with people as to whether you want to date them, a simple, "sorry it's not working for me" is all you need to say. No-one has a right to date you, you can be as selective as you want and you don't need to explain yourself.

The trans-identifying and their supporters thrive on redefining words and making up words to suit their agenda. They are trying desperately to redefine lesbianism and womanhood in an attempt to confuse people, especially women, and force them to lower their natural boundaries.

The people calling you "phobic" have the worst of intentions and care nothing about you. They are NOT your friends and if you want to keep your sanity, you need to go NC.

Hi Lola,

Welcome to T**f club, where a woman is an adult human female and a lesbian is a woman who is sexually orientated exclusively towards other women.

There are lots of women in the LB parts of the LGBT who feel exactly as you do. You will find them, now that you know to look for them (although they may want to vet you a bit first)!

‘Get the L Out’ and LGB Alliance are good places to start.

It’s conversion therapy.