Help me talk to my DD13

[Teenhelpplease]

Hi, I could really do with your help.
My DD is nearly 14, she hangs out with a (seemingly nice) group of boys and girls her age.
A few months ago she got together with one of the boys. Again all fairly innocent, they always meet with the group and haven’t really been out alone. DD is fairly embarrassed about it all and doesn’t really want to talk about it.
I rightly or wrongly still check DDs phone from time to time.
Anyway, it seems (from checking messages) they’ve decided to split up and just be friends. Fairly mutual but more from him. Lots of talk from both of how it’s not the same now they can’t see each other, still love you, we can be good friends, let’s see how we feel after lockdown ends and we’ll maybe get back together.
All seems reasonable.
However talk then turned to DD not being keen to ‘wank him off’. He’s full of that’s fine, no pressure etc but then slips in that if she had done it they probably wouldn’t have split up. She then replied that although she doesn’t want to have sex until she’s 15 or 16, she might have done that.
I’m so bloody angry with this boy for manipulating her like this all with a smattering of ‘no pressure but...’
He’s coming across to her as a nice caring boy who would never pressure her and who loves her, but who basically has his needs and if she’s not going to fulfil them then they can’t be together.
Dd hasn’t mentioned any of this to me, not even them splitting up. He’s told her not to tell me until they’ve decided whether the split is final after lockdown.
I just read the thread about the man’s rights to expect sex from his wife and it’s made me so angry.
I want to talk to DD (and I think DS12 should hear it too) without her thinking i’ve read her messages. Was thinking if maybe starting by telling them about the thread in here and then moving onto how manipulating people is utterly unacceptable.
Any ideas of what I can say to a cringing 13 year old?
Sorry this is so long. Am so bloody mad/worried.

I have no experience with teenagers or daughters but I would find a reason to talk about boundaries and saying no, sticking to what you're comfortable with.

Would it be helpful to say how you can say no even after you've said yes and that you can consent and then withdraw consent? And that consent isn't true consent unless there is no pressure and it's freely given? You could even mention this around having an injection or doing a sky dive or anything really that is about changing your mind.

She must be missing her friends and with phones and tech it can always turn to sexting and sharing pics so maybe you could talk about that somehow and ask if either of your daughters are missing any one in particular.

FWIW I will be having a similar talk when my son is older. The boys are just as responsible as the girls, if not more so.

Thanks for replying.
@SonEtLumiere she does know I check her phone but I don’t think she knows I know that she also messages on instagram. I don’t know this boy or his parents. So can’t go with your plan.
Yes @OhHolyJesus I will definitely be talking to my son about this too. I hate the thought of either of my kids pressuring or manipulating people.
I want to be able to empower my DD to see through the ‘it’s only because I love you’ bollocks.

I want to give her the tools to be strong and independent enough as she grows up not to feel she has to, when push comes to shove, placate a bloody man.

It's a pretty tricky one to broach, let us know how you get on.

Are there any other situations where you compare with her friends, like doing something they like for their birthday but you only do it if you will enjoy it too, IDK like an ice skating party. I guess I'm trying to think of other reasons to be able to raise the subject so you can talk through why people do, or don't do things, how they decide and come to those decisions.

@OhHolyJesus Yes I was thinking of examples of what she would accept from her friends. Like if your friend wanted you to climb a mountain and you really didn’t want to/didn’t feel you could do it, would it be ok for your friend to say she’s not your friend anymore and that if only you’d climbed the mountain you could have still been friends. Is that comparable?
I want her to be mad at him for putting her in this position. I want her to say to him that he’s being a total knob for trying to put pressure on in that way. I want her to be able to recognise when a boy is being a dick. It’s so hard, I know she’ll defend him in her own mind and think I know nothing.
She’s a lovely intelligent and in lots of ways independent girl. I can’t bear this!!

She’s old enough for you to speak to her about the subject directly.
Id start generally in talking about emotional blackmail and how anyone you love can use that love to pressure you into doing things you are not comfortable doing. To a certain extent this is very common because it’s not the asking but subtext of “do it for me” or “if you loved me, then you would/would not do x”.
But it’s important to be able to identify emotional blackmail and feel justified saying no without feeling guilt. You can have a frank talk with her about how this applies to your relationship, how it applied in past relationships between yourself and boyfriends, how it applies between siblings. Your DD then may share what’s been going on.

Your relationship= mother daughter relationship.

Is there a tv show or film you can watch with a comparable situation? So you can then discuss the 'characters' and how the boy is acting and girl is feeling?

Perhaps you could raise the issue of having PIV sex and the way some boys put pressure on, saying if you love me you'd do it, etc. Then you don't need to mention hand jobs or this particular boy but your DD will make the link herself.

The cup of tea video is very good for both sexes.

@PlanDeRaccordement Thanks for replying. You’re right she is old enough and the emotional blackmail is exactly what this is. As you say I can relate that to all of her relationships, thanks.
@EspressoPatronum yes I was trying to think of a film/book I could discuss with her. I couldn’t think of one though, I’ll keep thinking.
@Prawnofthepatriachy They’ve watched the tea video at school. I may see if she’ll have another look at it with me.
Thanks everyone x

Shes too good for a boy like that.
I would tell her I seen it.
Tell her to tell him to go wank himself.
Boys have far more respect for girls that say NO.
I have 2 dd dd1 is 16 has had a few bfs never done more than kissing says shes not ready and they agree they aren't either and say they like girls more that haven't been intimate with another boy.
Dd2 is 15 no bfs yet but has kissed a few.

How awful. But I suspect her experience is not unusual, judging by what I hear from my teens about what goes on (some of it caught on Instagram etc.).

I have teenagers of both sexes and from an early stage have tried to have regular conversations about relationships and sex. I have worked hard to find ways to draw the conversation round to these issues and work in some sort of casual message about appropriate behaviour.

Identifying a film you could watch together which gave you a jumping off point is a good idea. Sometimes I look up from my computer when they are with me and mention an article I've read online and use that as a way of starting the conversation.

If I was you I would not reveal my snooping. Better to have a chat and see what information she offers up and take it from there. What matters most is that you convey your view of what is not acceptable in a relationship between young people of her age.

Good luck!

Where do they "hang out" and where on earth would this wanking off have taken place? In the bushes? How romantic, I mean who could resist his charm? Vile little shit.

The police would advise you to be monitoring communication on a teenagers phone. 15 Kayleigh was groomed and murdered over a very short space of time. It is terrifying to think what she must have endured.

Re the boy, if he goes to the same school I would let them know he is being sexually coercive towards your DD just to put him on their radar.

I have two teen sons but I think I would just sit them both down (your children) and talk to them honestly about this sort of stuff. I would probably start with being sensible online, especially now school has closed and people will be messaging more and potentially accessing more stuff on the internet.

Then I would state the fact that you should never write what you don't want to be shown on the screen at the front of the school assembly in front of the school and the teachers. That nothing is private if it is written down, you can deny verbal you cannot deny messages.

I would lead onto sharing images of yourself and how it is illegal under the age of 18 and then move into the don't ever be swayed by the "if you loved me you would do this" because that isn't love that is emotional blackmail.

Tell them that you love them both so much and would never want them to ever be with someone who would be like this toward them.

Sex Education on Netflix is a good series. It follows sixth former main characters as they grapple with sex and relationships. 13 is on the cusp, but as your DD has already had a bf and is being pressured into sexual activity, she is probably mentally mature enough to watch the series. Preview it yourself to be sure it aligns with you values.

“if he goes to the same school I would let them know he is being sexually coercive towards your DD just to put him on their radar.”

I would not do that. That’s using a flame thrower when all you need is a fly swatter. The fallout would be immense. School people knowing her DDs relationship details and interrogating her DD, parents meetings with school officials. Too traumatic when OP can effectively parent her DD to manage emotional blackmail which is so common it’s an occupational hazard just to be alive.

Here is link to Sex Education
www.netflix.com/title/80197526

Nothing changes does it.

The boys were like this 30 years ago. Same same same.

The advice around warning about manipulation, fine to say no etc is all great but the issue here is the boys. That they have probably always done this and I can't see an end to it. And that's because boys and men in general condone it, really. And if anything goes wrong it's the girl who gets blamed.

I think a real element of this is their age, and I'm not sure it's a good idea to avoid that being part of the conversation. If they were 25 year olds, obviously the question of being sexually active together would be reasonable for them discuss, and if they had really different views, they might not be a good match.

14 year olds OTOH are not legally supposed to be having sex, for very good reasons. Sometimes this is glossed over a bit in sex ed, it's all about "when you are ready" and so forth. But that tends to put the conversation they are having on the same footing as the 25 year olds having it, where it clearly doesn't belong.

Maybe I'm very naive but I'm shocked that a 13 year old would have to think about seeing or touching an erect penis, even of a boy her own age. Bless her for having to think about this and feick him for pressurising her in this way. I'd want to rip his nuts off, frankly.
I am rubbish at the whole indirect subterfuge thing and a terrible liar, so I personally would go in saying "you know I don't look at your phone very often because I trust you, but you also know that I do sometimes check because I'm concerned about some of the chats you might get sucked into in various groups. Well, I have to confess that when I was having a quick scroll through your phone, I did find something that concerned me, and I'm really sorry because this is going to be cringey for both of us, but we do need to have a bit of a chat about it." And just dive in if she seems not too angry about the fact I've snooped.
Good luck OP, hope you're able to find a way to discuss it and help her see he's a little shite and not worthy of a second thought.

Thanks so much for replying, it’s so helpful to have your opinions.
I’ve made a start on the mission (at least lockdown gives me plenty of time to hammer the message home!).
I was sat with Dd and Ds and I said I’d not slept well because of an article I’d read about men using emotional blackmail.
Neither of them knew what emotional blackmail was so I gave a few examples and said the article had been about men trying to get women to do things they may not be comfortable with.
My DS was horrified and actually quite offended that I would imagine that he would ever act like that.
Dd was quite quiet but did towards the end of the conversation say that she would never fall for that and that she would know if someone was trying to manipulate her.

I tried to make it clear to her that when people are in love with each other it can be hard to spot and that sometimes girls might find it easier to go along with it than split up blah blah blah.
I told them that was their PHSE for the day and that we might have another go at it tomorrow.
Hopefully I’ve planted a seed in her mind and I’ll water it over the next week or two.
Thanks again for all the support. I do indeed want to castrate the vile little shit and am so upset for my poor Dd.

I’m literally horrified at your calm response and some of these replies op. I guess I’m in the minority. My dd is 13 in 5 days, if I found messages on her phone from a boy trying to coerce her into ‘wanking him off’, there’d be fucking hell to pay. I admit my dd is a bit naive for her age, she has absolutely no interest in boys whatsoever and is still a couple years at least from getting a boyfriend. But your dd’s 13 ffs and this boy sounds like a sex pest. I’d have been straight round his house to speak to his parents, not only to protect my dd but so they can intervene in his behaviour. I’d probably take her phone off her aswell rather than have her exposed to boys trying to get her to touch their cocks when she’s years away from being even legal. Words fail me about how much you’re pussyfooting around this

Girls were at varying levels of sexual activity when we were 14, op DD is nearly 14 and yes it's very young and yes I'd be horrified if it were one of my DDs but, this is nothing new is it. Not the age and not the coercion.

How do we change this, when the problem lies in male behaviour and there seems to be little appetite in society to confront it.

@Andi2020 its pretty fucking worrying that he's telling your DD that boys prefer girls who haven't been with other boys - that's some fucked up purity bullshit. Virginity is a madeup concept and has nothing to do with a person's worth, please tell her that.

OP sorry for the derail, i think you've handled this perfectly.

We change it by addressing it when it happens. Not by leaving a 13 year old child to deal with being blackmailed into wanking people off on their own. It really shouldn’t be that hard to track this boy down. I know he’s young himself, but he’s still emotionally blackmailing little girls into performing sex acts on him. That’s not fucking normal at any age, I’d be considering the police, let alone just his parents and the school. I know you could argue that girls need to learn to deal with it, and you should obviously teach them to a certain extent. But there needs to be some consideration for her age though. If your 10 year old came home and said a boy asked her to wank them off, would you do nothing but make up daft analogies and scenarios where you encourage her to just say no? 13 to me is still well too young to be dealing with this shit. And this boy sounds like he could do someone some serious damage one day, that’s if he hasn’t already. Someone needs to step in

I think you are doing the right thing, but I would be tempted to fess up, as they say.

If she didn't delete the messages and knows that you check her phone, maybe them being there is a signal that this is something that she doesn't know how to handle. Maybe she wants you to say no so that she doesn't have to?

This is a tricky age group. They are finding out who they are and how they fit in to peer groups. I have had to do a lot of work with my DD, now 14.5. I have to accept that she is exploring her sexuality, but also arm her to protect herself. She has had her first kiss, the person then "airing" her. She was hurt and scared, but now knows that she deserves better.

I have spent time with her discussing various scenarios and what is reasonable and unreasonable. I am hoping that she can see her value and their tricks.