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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Covid-19 and purity spirals

684 replies

DreadPirateLuna · 09/04/2020 13:54

Covid-19 is a very serious illness which threatens our most vulnerable and risks overwhelming the NHS. We should all do what we can to flatten the curve and save lives. People whose behaviour risks lives (e.g. urban residents traveling out to holiday homes in rural communities) should face criticism and sanctions.

However, I can't help feeling that some of the outrage at some behaviours is less about reducing the spread and more about getting caught in a "purity spiral".

Take all the outrage about people in parks. Fresh air and sunshine is good for physical and mental health, it improves the immune system which is particularly important during an epidemic! Many urban residents have no other source of open space except the local park. The ability to get outside can be lifesaving for victims of DV. Risks of contracting disease are very low if you keep your distance from others outside your household.

Yet I've seen photos of walkers and family groups in parks, keeping far away from others, but accused of selfishness and killing the elderly and disrespecting the NHS. Parks in London have been closed, meaning more congestion of other areas and residents confined to homes, which is damaging for reasons outlined above.

And it's usually (though not exclusively) women and esp mothers who get blamed. Those selfish Karens and their broods.

A more sensible solution would be to allow restricted access to the parks. Maybe allow only locals in nearby flats without gardens. But it seems we're not doing sensible these days.

OP posts:
DidoLamenting · 10/04/2020 19:34

I might possibly not have been paying full attention but there isn't a banned list?

The Government recognised wine is essential. And presumably chocolate and cake and things to make cake with.

I've been out for a walk every day- between 30 to 60 minutes. It's a mixture of streets and a locked private communal garden to which I have access. There has been no difficulty keeping 2m distance.

A couple of times I've gone past Waitrose but haven't gone in. Just along from Waitrose there are several small independent grocers and cheese shops which are open. I've bought stuff from them. One of them stocks Jerusalem artichokes, fennel bulbs, white asparagus, kohlrabi and eddo roots, all of which I bought. Are these essential? They are fresh food and if it's not bought it will rot. It took me less than a minute. There was a one other person in the shop.

I also passed 2 art galleries which sit in their own extensive grounds- the grounds are open. There were 2 or 3 people separated by many, many, many metres.

I gave up alcohol at the end of 2018. I lost the taste for it and didn't miss it at all. If I open wine now it's for cooking. I needed 100ml of wine for a recipe today and the only wine I had was a Prosecco. It worked well in the recipe. I'm drinking a glass. First glass of wine in 15 months. I'm enjoying it.

scaevola · 10/04/2020 19:35

"Why dont we ban all items which charge VAT?"

Because VAT is a general consumption tax, not a luxury tax

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 10/04/2020 19:40

There is no banned list. Various people, including some members of the police, have been making their own judgements about what they think should be banned and pretending that the government guidelines give them the authority to do so (they don't).

DidoLamenting · 10/04/2020 19:40

The VAT point is ridiculous.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/04/2020 19:46

Given that we are being implored to stay at home, that we aren't allowed to go and sit in a park, that we aren't allowed to drive to see family, even maintaining distancing I cannot see the logic in allowing people to browse through supermarkets looking at dvds, candles, bedding, cushions, clothes, picture frames etc. You are prolonging the time you, other shoppers and staff are exposed and it makes no sense.

Why close certain shops if it's ok to shop? Why has Primark had to close but the clothing department in a supermarket is open? It makes no sense. There is clearly a risk to being in a shop so why argue that you should be in a shop for as long as you like, while others have to wait outside for you to finish?

Dances · 10/04/2020 19:51

None is arguing that you can be in a shop as long as you like, just aren't up for enforcing conditions on time and monitoring everyone. It's an important difference.

Dances · 10/04/2020 19:53

Right I'm off to join my friends on Zoom and drink my Contraband. It will be like being in a Speakeasy.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 10/04/2020 19:54
Wine

I'm having my evil unnecessary tea as we speak.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/04/2020 19:57

I can't eat treats, no carbs, no wheat, no gluten, no dairy, can't drink alcohol because of immunosuppressants I'm on, can't even go outside for a walk now. A treat that would make my life more bearable right now would be to go and visit my kids. So,that's ok right? Because it isn't about doing the right thing it's about ourselves and what's right for us as individuals right?

It's not a race to the bottom Hmm I'm sorry you can't do those things, but if I want a little treat to brighten my day I will have one, while following government advice. You have the internet obviously? Not everyone does, it's non essential, so you need to stop using it, don't you?

DidoLamenting · 10/04/2020 20:07

There is clearly a risk to being in a shop so why argue that you should be in a shop for as long as you like, while others have to wait outside for you to finish?

Has anyone suggested that?

In real life I haven't seen people loitering and browsing.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/04/2020 20:12

You have the internet obviously? Not everyone does, it's non essential, so you need to stop using it, don't you?

Am I putting anyone in any danger by using this? Have I got near to anyone while using my phone, in my house? How is that in any way comparable to going shopping?

DidoLamenting

Well how are people selecting items? They aren't doing a supermarket sweep style round round the supermarket are they? The store I work at is large so people are walking up and down all aisles, and upstairs to.look at clothes, electrical goods etc, browsing bedding and cushions. Of course that's extending the time they are in the store.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/04/2020 20:18

Am I putting anyone in any danger by using this? Have I got near to anyone while using my phone, in my house? How is that in any way comparable to going shopping?

No one is putting anyone in danger by getting a bottle of wine with their other shopping.

DidoLamenting · 10/04/2020 20:19

My normal foodshops are M& S and Waitrose. I haven't been to either for 2 weeks as my husband worked 4 days per week and is now on furlough. I'm working from home. He reports M&S has closed off everything but the foodhall and Waitrose only sells food. There is a Sainsbury's which is nearer which sells clothes etc but I assume it has done the same as M&S. There's no need to go through non food stuff section to buy food. Husband doesn't go to the Sainsbury's as although it's nearer he's unfamiliar with the store layout unlike M&S which he can whizz round. Same with local Scotmid.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/04/2020 20:21

No one is putting anyone in danger by getting a bottle of wine with their other shopping.

Of course you are. It's naive to think otherwise. There are other shoppers in there, yes? Staff? You touch a trolley or basket, the wine bottle? Of course there's risk

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/04/2020 20:23

I can't eat treats, no carbs, no wheat, no gluten, no dairy, can't drink alcohol because of immunosuppressants I'm on, can't even go outside for a walk now.

Why this guilt trip? Most people can go outside, and are permitted to go shopping and take daily exercise, and you need to accept this. Your health condition means that to protect yourself that's not advisable at the moment. But you wouldn't actually be breaking the law if you did, for instance if you had a field next to your house where you would be on your own to go for a walk and judged it was an acceptable level of personal risk.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/04/2020 20:23

DidoLamenting

Our local superstores are still selling everything. Clothes, electricals, non food - all still open.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/04/2020 20:24

Of course you are. It's naive to think otherwise. There are other shoppers in there, yes? Staff? You touch a trolley or basket, the wine bottle? Of course there's risk

How is picking up a bottle of wine different to picking up a tin of beans? I didn't say there was no risk at all, did I Hmm

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/04/2020 20:27

Why this guilt trip?

Because I'm sick of reading on thread after thread - oh I can't possibly do without my wine, chocolate, hot cross buns, mascara, fifty mile bike ride, twenty walks per day. Yes, you can do without them you are just choosing not to go without but your choices impact on people like me who have literally no nice things, at all, because you are making my hell go on for longer.

And what's the difference between walking in a field and walking down a road? Why do you think a field would be safe but a street isn't?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/04/2020 20:27

Thanks to you Hooves for so perfectly illustrating what a purity spiral is. Your ideas about a "list" are ridiculous. Not even Spain and Italy have that.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/04/2020 20:30

How is picking up a bottle of wine different to picking up a tin of beans? I didn't say there was no risk at all, did

Because it extends the length of time you are in the shop.

No one is putting anyone in danger by getting a bottle of wine with their other shopping.

You said no one is putting anyone in danger so unless there is no risk then of course you are putting someone in danger because you don't know if you are incubating it do you?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 10/04/2020 20:32

I was curious after one of the many threads about this so I checked - Italy, Spain, France, none limiting what can be bought to "essential" items, it's all about limiting the number of trips. So once you're at the shop anywhere, if it's there you can buy it.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/04/2020 20:32

Hooves, you are spending every waking moment on coronavirus threads, from what I can see. For your sake, I'd step away. Your ideas are extreme. It's not healthy to want to control others this much. If they were going to lockdown any further they would have probably done it by now. I think that we will go on as we are. With people allowed to take some enjoyment where they can. Civil liberties are important.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/04/2020 20:33

Because it extends the length of time you are in the shop.

By seconds.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 10/04/2020 20:33

Anyway

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/04/2020 20:35

It's amazing how those of you who think I'm wrong can't actually justify why I'm wrong, other than "we don't like it".

Government advice is to minimise the time you are out. So, the longer you are out the greater the risk. Why is it so difficult for you to see that the longer you are in a supermarket the greater the risk?

Again, why can't those of us who are shielded go out at all, even for a walk? There must be risk in just walking out of the door yet so many people keep stating that going out and staying out is completely fine. If it is, why are people like me told not to.go.out at all then?

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