Covid-19 and purity spirals

[DreadPirateLuna]

Covid-19 is a very serious illness which threatens our most vulnerable and risks overwhelming the NHS. We should all do what we can to flatten the curve and save lives. People whose behaviour risks lives (e.g. urban residents traveling out to holiday homes in rural communities) should face criticism and sanctions.

However, I can't help feeling that some of the outrage at some behaviours is less about reducing the spread and more about getting caught in a "purity spiral".

Take all the outrage about people in parks. Fresh air and sunshine is good for physical and mental health, it improves the immune system which is particularly important during an epidemic! Many urban residents have no other source of open space except the local park. The ability to get outside can be lifesaving for victims of DV. Risks of contracting disease are very low if you keep your distance from others outside your household.

Yet I've seen photos of walkers and family groups in parks, keeping far away from others, but accused of selfishness and killing the elderly and disrespecting the NHS. Parks in London have been closed, meaning more congestion of other areas and residents confined to homes, which is damaging for reasons outlined above.

And it's usually (though not exclusively) women and esp mothers who get blamed. Those selfish Karens and their broods.

A more sensible solution would be to allow restricted access to the parks. Maybe allow only locals in nearby flats without gardens. But it seems we're not doing sensible these days.

Also when disposing of disposable gloves please do so in an actual bin. People have been just dropping them on the ground where I live and I'm worried dogs will end up swallowing them.

In the bin at home...

Mine are

Dont know about anyone elses

I keep trying to explain to people who are 'keeping their shopping gloves in the car for when they go out'. Not surprising, really, glove hygiene isn't part of every day life. We are wiping every high touch area down with appropriate sprays and single use cloths frequently, so it's as germ free as it can be. And obvs the contactless limit has gone up so touching is as minimal as possible.

Yes! Abandoned gloves all the place here. Reminds me of the people who pick up their dog’s crap, bag it, than leave the bags on the path or hanging in a tree.

Like tumbleweeds in a Spaghetti Western, it's ridiculous.

Yes, I walked the dog today and the grass verge was studded with random blue gloves in amongst the odd cluster of bluebells. Makes a change from the crisp packets to go with the heady scent of weed.

The PPE situation is shocking (and clearly the reason they're not recommending masks for the public, cos they wouldn't have enough!

What people buy in a shop that is open is nobody else's sodding business (hoarding excluded). On other threads folk are berated for shopping online. So we can't win frankly. Make it too hard to buy stuff and people will find ways round, borrowing from friends, buying second hand etc whicj will end up increasing social contact.

Make it too hard to buy stuff and people will find ways round, borrowing from friends, buying second hand etc whicj will end up increasing social contact.

This. And I'm sure the government realise this. People aren't going to all sit around in sackcloth and ashes drinking water and staring at the wall just because some people think everyone should be miserable.

Well, quite apart from anything else, we're using the Easter Sunday close down to try and make sure stock levels in store return to the normal levels they would have been before so many people lost their damned minds about toilet roll and long life milk. The issue has never been about access and the supply chain - it's been people suddenly making wild and ridiculously unnecessary changes to their shopping habits. There is no need. Please just shop for what you would ordinarily buy, factoring in that there may be short term restrictions on some ambient goods.

Honestly, everyone, like I say, food retailers are in a risky situation, but we're doing our job conscientiously and if you are abiding by the simple distancing and washing your hands when you get home, we will all be as safe as possible.

Thank you for all you're doing, Floral

I do not agree this is an example of a purity spiral. Purity spirals are where people end up competing to a ridiculous degree to be the most right on calling out tinier and tinier infractions or perceived infractions.

This looks superficially like a purity spiral, but I think it is a fear spiral. I have noticed that those most talking about infractions in the way you say OP are often either in the shielded group or have a close family member who is, or have someone close to them who is a medic treating patients affected.

The government did not take this seriously enough, they failed us spectacularly. Which is why we are in the situation we are with a high mortality rate. but because the government have continually underplayed it, there are still people not taking this seriously, and people whose main focus seems to be outrage at any restrictions and a focus on what they can get away with. These two groups are colliding online. That is what creates these posts.

The person who is very afraid sees people not following rules and gets more and more outraged. That outrage is really fear. They want people to not just follow the letter of the law, but the spirit of the law too. The law is there to reduce transmission.

And the issue about what people buy seems to have been sparked or fuelled by the many comments I see online from shop staff complaining about a good number of people going to shops and buying a chocolate bar, or going to the supermarket every single day. Nobody really cares if when you do a weekly shop you buy wine and chocolate. They do care if you make lots of tiny trips to the shop over the week to buy the same things.

Sitting on park benches is the issue. That can spread corona. My mobility isn't great so I just walk around some streets rather than go to the park. It does not matter to me if I can sit in a bench or not, I just know it would be stupid to do so. So I don't go to the park as I can't walk that far and back without sitting down. Exercise does not have to be in lovely surroundings.

Nobody really cares if when you do a weekly shop you buy wine and chocolate.

Hooves does! Apparently it means that we will then take too long in the shop.

(It doesn't, but try telling her that if you feel up to 15 rounds of the exact same argument.)

People are restricted, hugely, and feel like they're losing hugely important human connections. They're taking extreme steps to do their bit in line with the guidance they're receiving from govt. Making huge changes to their lives and managing the stress of disconnection with people they love and are used to seeing regularly. Leaving loved ones alone. For weeks. People on their own. People keeping kids inside and away from other kids. It's horribly painful and difficult.

It's really no surprise that there's a strong and resentful reaction to seeing other people ignore all that or make spurious exceptions for themselves.

Sorry just come off shift so may not make a lot of sense. For people being shielded they need to take stringent means to not come into contact with the virus at all because it may well kill them. However, with no vaccine and no cure we need the rest of the population to gradually be exposed to the virus otherwise we will be in lockdown forever. The issue is it needs to be done slowly and in a controlled way so that the health service is not overwhelmed. Hence the difference in what people are allowed to do. So the general public need to gradually be exposed to the virus and build up their immunity, with the help of health interventions if necessary.

And for the record, after a 70 hour a week or so on the frontline I am partial to a small glass of wine! Everyone needs something to look forward to.

It's really no surprise that there's a strong and resentful reaction to seeing other people ignore all that or make spurious exceptions for themselves.

Except many of the rule breaches aren't breaches at all, they're making up criteria they believe other people should follow.

Even the much maligned bar of chocolate buyer - you've no idea what they came in for. Sure, some probably did just come for the chocolate. But others probably went for something more essential to find it out of stock.

I'm immunosuppressed. Why would the shielding letter say explicitly not to leave the house if it's ok to go for a walk, if I really wanted to

I have a friend who is on medication for high blood pressure....which I understand can seriously negatively impact on the immune system......?I guess you have to do what you feel instinctively is the right thing for you....and if you are seriously compromised it must be a very worrying time for both you and your family.

My husband had surgery for prostate cancer last year.....it did not involve chemo or radiation, fortunately...and he has now been given the all clear. He's the youngest looking, and fittest 73 year old you're ever likely to meet ( a lot older than me.....I'm 54) - but given his age does fall into the 'vulnerable' category.

However, he still goes for a morning run every other day, and we both go out to the local park or promenade with our granddaughter most days. I do all of the shopping, though......but do find myself going on a regular basis - doing smaller baskets, at a variety of local stores - most often walking there and back with the shopping.

Bigger supermarkets are for bigger shops.....for those items that are difficult to find elsewhere - and then I'll take the car. Lots of older people don't have a car, though........and unless they have someone doing shopping for them, then they need to go more frequently than once a week.

It's a difficult and strange time for us all........and it certainly has brought great fear into the lives of many.......but also, I think, the potential for gossip and twitching curtains.

Justhadathought

With respect you are confusing the vulnerable group with the shielded group.

No, blood pressure medication does not affect the immune system. High blood pressure makes you more vulnerable to developing complications. A certain type of medication, ACE inhibitors, were thought to increase risk but still under investigation.

Yes, your husband who is in a vulnerable group can go out on e per day to exercise. He can also mix with you at home. He is,however still at an increased risk of developing a severe form of this disease and people in the vulnerable group are advised to self isolate as much as possible. I take it your grand daughter lives with you as you are still seeing her?
People in the shielded group cannot. We have to isolate from other household members and are told not to go out of our homes.

My son lives in Barcelona, and he says that they are thinking of lifting the restrictions in a couple of weeks.......and permitting children to go back to school. The UK is 2/3 weeks behind Spain.

I'm not really sure what that proves? Ireland have announced restrictions to continue for another three weeks and are not as badly affected as UK. Still not sure what that has to do with anything

I take it your grand daughter lives with you as you are still seeing her?
People in the shielded group cannot. We have to isolate from other household members and are told not to go out of our homes

No, she lives about a mile away with my daughter. But we have always had a lot of responsibility for her ( she's 5)......and we see our two households as one functional household and, as such, act accordingly. We are the only people they have contact with..and vice versa. Apart from in supermarkets.

I'm not really sure what that proves

It doesn't prove anything. it is just me sharing a personal anecdote.

No, she lives about a mile away with my daughter. But we have always had a lot of responsibility for her ( she's 5).....

Then that's utterly ridiculous and in clear breach of the rules but again, another excuse as to why you are different and the rules don't apply.

No, blood pressure medication does not affect the immune system

My friend is under the impression it can?