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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

MNHQ want money from us

605 replies

JellySlice · 08/04/2020 15:26

Perhaps now is the time to tell MNHQ what we want from them.

eg
Relaxation of the anti-women censorship rules.
Reinstating banned respected posters like LangCleg.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
DidoLamenting · 12/04/2020 10:32

It’s like cat lovers wanting to have a say on how The Dog House is moderated

You are missing the point. FWR is not a special interest hobby group. It covers issues specifically affecting women. Your comment seem to suggest that there is an "FWR" position and if posters don't like it, they can go elsewhere.

But of course notallmumsnetters agree with the FWR position .. why should they? Women are not a monolith

Since posters who dislike FWR can hide it or (omg!) just not click on FWR threads ... why would they even care how FWR is moderated? I don’t get it..

My reason for not subscribing is entirely down to security issues. I'm happy to make a donation. I don't understand why MNHQ hasn't explored that option.

The ads don't bother me (is it marketing sense anyway for advertisers to know their ads can be ignored for a small fee)

R0wantrees · 12/04/2020 10:36

I find the idea that women should always maintain a pleasant tone [both] unpleasant and unnecessary.

Radical idea, & on a feminist board too Kittens Smile

Mner2000 · 12/04/2020 10:39

Maybe we should start our own thread on site stuff - people who would donate anonymously but won’t subscribe for whatever reason...

R0wantrees · 12/04/2020 11:01

11/4/2020
Maya Forstater, 'Reality Bites: Why sex (still) matters'
(extract)
It is hard to think about, talk about or write about anything else but the corona virus crisis right now.

But still I want to talk about sex.
Sex — whether you are man or a woman — is real, binary, straightforward, and in some situations important.

To which the questions come; “Why do you still want to talk about that, don’t you know there is a pandemic on? Does it really matter? Why are you still being mean to transgender people?”

This was never about being mean to transgender people. It was always about being able to talk about material reality; in particular the reality of female bodies and women’s lives, and laws which protect against sex discrimination. More than this, it is about institutions — political parties, governments and public bodies, the media, universities, regulators, research institutions being able to do their job — which means dealing with reality." (continues)

Only a month ago it was International Women’s Day. UN Women was telling us that women are ‘formless’. Almost every mainstream organisation marked the day by genuflecting towards the edgy idea that the category of women must include males.
Now, biology is back.
As reality bites, it is clear that the language of “gender identity” and the denial of sex are useless for talking about how this crisis is affecting women and men. Men appear are more likely to die from the virus. Lockdowns, closure of schools and businesses, the way that financial safety net packages are designed affect men and women differently." (continues)
medium.com/@MForstater/reality-bites-why-sex-still-matters-fac66188432b

Mner2000 · 12/04/2020 11:24

I have started a thread to pull together a list of those who would rather anonymously donate than subscribe

Dyrne · 12/04/2020 11:24

Mner2000 I agree the number of people with access to the information needs to be controlled. Maybe more to process the initial influx, but surely 2 or 3 people (to cover sickness etc) can cover general ongoing maintenance etc.

DidoLamenting · 12/04/2020 11:37

Mner2000 thanks. I've posted on it.

2BthatUnnoticed · 12/04/2020 12:30

@DidoLamenting I agree feminism affects all women. Its great that so many visit FWR (third for traffic after AIBU and Relationships).

Some MNetters dislike FWR though, which is to be expected. Women are not a monolith. Hence MN has four other feminism boards. Blocking FWR would not leave you “nowhere to go” but with 80% of MN’s “official” feminist space - and the rest of MN.

So, for those who do not like, need or use FWR... why would their views on its moderation matter (genuine question)?

2BthatUnnoticed · 12/04/2020 12:35

But I agree that donating (rather than subscribing) should be an option. I’m sure this will become available, who would turn down a free, no-strings cash injection?

DidoLamenting · 12/04/2020 12:44

MN hasfourother feminism boards. Blocking FWR would not leave you “nowhere to go” but with 80% of MN’s “official” feminist space - and the rest of MN

Firstly why are you quoting "nowhere to go"? or referring to "blocking FWR". I did not say anything like that in my posts. Please do not invent things I have not said.

Secondly - so far as the 4 other feminist boards - almost nobody posts on them- as I'm sure you very well know. No-one seems terribly clear what the difference between "Feminist Activism" "Feminist Theory" and "Feminist Support" "Feminist Book Club" barely gets off the ground, even when a new thread is posted in FWR.

Thirdly- your post is really more of the same isn't it? Any one who doesn't go with the "FWR position" should go elsewhere.

You said But of course notallmumsnetters agree with the FWR position ..

What is the "FWR position?" Who was appointed to decide it?

MoleSmokes · 12/04/2020 13:03

Mner2000 I have taken a leaf out of your book and posted a new thread in "Site Stuff" Smile

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3878378-Premium-Membership-Privacy-and-Data-Protection-MNHQ-please-clarify

alloutoffucks · 12/04/2020 13:08

The FWR position seems to be that transgender people are destroying all rights for women and is the greatest and main threat to all women.

R0wantrees · 12/04/2020 13:13

The FWR position seems to be that transgender people are destroying all rights for women and is the greatest and main threat to all women.

No
This is innacurate in many ways. Not least that there exists 'an FWR position'

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 12/04/2020 13:23

What R0 said

alloutoffucks · 12/04/2020 13:25

Okay, I have been attacked for saying there are some threats, but many on here overstate the threat.

R0wantrees · 12/04/2020 13:27

Attacked by who?

alloutoffucks · 12/04/2020 13:29

By some posters on here. Told I am a troll because I disagreed.

MarieQueenofScots · 12/04/2020 13:36

By some posters on here

Seems a touch odd that you would assert there’s a “FWR position” on the strength of some posters allegedly flaming you.

There’s no-more a FWR position than there is a MN position.

R0wantrees · 12/04/2020 13:36

Its an open forum.
People are accused of all sorts of things, sometimes falsely. Its never pleasant when that happens.

MoleSmokes · 12/04/2020 13:40

"One thing is for absolute sure though it costs us much more to run FWR (both in terms of moderation effort, legal costs and loss in ad revs) than we make in ad revenue from it. The reason we do it isn't for profit it's because we believe there should be somewhere mainstream where these issues can be debated."

I am genuinely grateful that MN is prepared to take a financial hit in order to maintain FWR. However, this analysis does not tell the full story:

  • members who post primarily on FWR also visit other MN Talk Boards where they might well contribute to "ad revenue" (I am much more likely to even notice an advert on a less serious Boards where I lurk but am unlikely to post).

Would "FWR posters" they even bother with MN if FWR did not exist in its current form?

  • other members have told MNHQ that a big reason they are on Mumsnet is because they lurk on FWR whilst still posting on other Boards.

Would "FWR Lurkers" even bother with MN if FWR did not exist in its current form?

"Tell MNHQ why you use Mumsnet" Sept 2018
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3377940-Tell-MNHQ-why-you-use-Mumsnet

"Lurkers of FWR, pop in and say Hi!" Sept 2018
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3380184-Lurkers-of-FWR-pop-in-and-say-Hi

2BthatUnnoticed · 12/04/2020 14:13

Ok I’m a bit confused.. my earlier comment was simply responding to Penny’s (directly above) which included a copy/paste from Justine.

(I’m on mobile, can’t copy and paste)

Justine referred to “the received wisdom on the FWR forum that we should be more robust on our stance...” which I paraphrased as “the FWR position.”

Of course, anyone should post on FWR as much as they like - it’s much less hostile or scary than AIBU (imo - I’m not a known poster on either). But for MN-ers who do not like FWR, there are other feminine boards.

It was FWR posters whose personal data was posted online. Justine stressed on the other thread that this data (IP address) was in very small text, and Emma has not intentionally left it visible.

2BthatUnnoticed · 12/04/2020 14:15

Sorry I hadn’t reloaded .. that comment was responding to Dido...

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 12/04/2020 14:16

Well, Emma intended to post something from an FWR poster, but iirc what she actually posted was a goady comment from a TRA who was trying to shit stir, including said TRAs IP address, because Emma Is Very Clever.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/04/2020 15:25

Didn't she post 4 people's IP addresses? The TRA was the one who made the section 28 comment.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 12/04/2020 15:30

Were there others? If so then I think Justine was fibbing a bit in the asking for money thread.

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