MNHQ want money from us

[JellySlice]

Perhaps now is the time to tell MNHQ what we want from them.

eg
Relaxation of the anti-women censorship rules.
Reinstating banned respected posters like LangCleg.

It's an incredible moneyspinner.

It's not. Turnover is high but profit is embarrassingly low given the potential, and has been for many years.

I do think it may be time to create a dedicated space for discussion with some of the same features (publicly accessible, easy to navigate for the non tech savvy, etc). Reddit GC is great but very American in focus, Spinster is not super user friendly if you're not the most tech savvy person.

if you hear 'Change course chaps there's a fucking iceberg!' you'd be rather foolish to ignore the speaker because they're shouting confidently.

Yes however its also important & reasonable to ask questions of someone shouting loudly & to try to establish if this is due to confidence based on knowledge or other reasons.

A person seeing an iceberg shouldnt neccessarily then take charge of the passengers & the bridge.

That we should contribute financially to the coffers, otherwise it shows a lack of gratitude and/or we might get the board shutdown?

No - that you shouldn't be so gleeful that MN is having to ask, or so certain that MN needs you at any cost, or so blind about what its support for this board (which you can't even read as support - you only see the attempts to limit the damage as coercive control) has already cost MN.

Ooo Datun I'll join Datunsnet

Who's gleeful? I'd pay if I could do so anonymously.

Yes, I know all that Rowan.
Why do you keep quoting me and then reeling off stuff completely unrelated to what I'm saying?
First quoting me and talking about transphobia when I just said about losing big names before corona, and linking to randomers spouting on Twitter, now this.
Yes, it's a board that existed to discuss feminism and women's rights.
It is one of the only places that hosts these discussions though regardless of all that and the poster was just saying that people should be grateful that MN lets it take place.
I've definitely seen it been said that they're grateful MN lets them speak before, seems to strangely be the opposite stance more now since these money threads!

If Justine comes up with a way of people contributing money without identifying them, I have no doubt that she'll get tons of the bloody stuff.

It's the single biggest concern.

This ^^

No - that you shouldn't be so gleeful that MN is having to ask, or so certain that MN needs you at any cost, or so blind about what its support for this board (which you can't even read as support - you only see the attempts to limit the damage as coercive control) has already cost MN.

None of these suggestions are factual though.

The dynamics of coercive control are relevent in understanding the nature of TRAs/MRAs attempts to silence/smear/intimidate/disrupt women speaking about sex based rights & Safeguarding.

Safeguarding matters.

LangCleg wrote Thu 21-Feb-19

"How did the scandal of TV entertainers grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?

How did the scandal of Catholic priests grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?

How did the scandal of on-street gangs grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?

Because if you create a sacred caste of any group and silence anyone asking questions about individuals on behalf of the sacred caste, abusers will see, infiltrate, and groom and exploit children. That''s how."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3512177-Julia-Long-asking-Munro-Bergdorf-about-child-exploitation?pg=12

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3803858-Today-s-daily-dose-of-LangCleg-sense

"It's an incredible moneyspinner."

It's not. Turnover is high but profit is embarrassingly low given the potential, and has been for many years.

Well, there you go. Someone else at the helm, or on a different ship, might well avoid the ice berg.

People aren't gleeful. They are allowed to be pissed off. They are allowed to grumble. They are allowed to point out that without them, collectively, the site doesn't work. Of course, single individuals, aren't as important. But, to be honest, there are only so many individuals to go around. So at some point the balance is definitely tipped.

But, as I said, I'm sure most people would like the site to remain, as it's a right faff to set up another one.

But Justine has to sort out the security issue.

Oh my god.

Rather than linking to a beautifully constructed miniature, you need to look at the bigger picture right there on the wall. Which is of a massive iceberg.

Vitreous, I'm not sure how you expect the women of FWR to prevent the collision.

Seriously.

Women have been beaten, taken to court, their families splashed all over the Internet, been arrested, fired from jobs, threatened with bombs, threatened with rape, and lost their mental health due to being targeted.

For the love of Mike, stop throwing up your arms in despair that they won't risk all of that to stop Justine/MN hitting an iceberg.

What do you want them to do exactly???

I mean I'm absolutely serious. Let's have your suggestion.

Oh my god

You'll probably get another wall of text for that comment lol
Yes, it's all very important to know coercive control techniques etc and yes, of course safeguarding matters.
All vitriol was saying (I think) is that
No - that you shouldn't be so gleeful that MN is having to ask, or so certain that MN needs you at any cost, or so blind about what its support for this board
meaning that a lot of people seem to think MN needs them, and the board would fold if it wasn;t for certain posters for example. It's a massive place, and not just this board.
you don't seem to be taking in anything anyone is saying, just posting walls of texts and links instead half the time completely unrelated to what people are saying

What I'm saying isn't specific to the premium offer. These are general points.

Yes, we get it. MN is under genuine threat.

Some of us would consider contributing financially, but MN has proven itself such a shower of shite wrt security issues, we are extremely reticent to do so, for very legitimate reasons.

And instead of fully and frankly addressing those security issues, MNHQ appear to have decided a scolding insider trying to put the frighteners of "If MN don't get your money, there will be no FWR, is that what you want? Hmm?" is an appropriate response.

As has been said many times, if MNHQ had our backs without all the mealy mouthed caveats over the years, most of us would have been very much more forthcoming with vocal support. Tutting at us for not being evasograteful, sir, for the ability to walk on eggshells to discuss physical reality, is really taking the piss, and it's that tone deafness that has chopped away at the loyalty MN might have expected if we hadn't been gaslit endlessly and then told we've never 'ad it so good.

None of which addresses the security issues, which are most people's primary concern.

If you're not working for MNHQ, Vitreous, you're doing them a disservice, and if I were them I'd be telling you to button it. If you are in some sense posting on behalf of MNHQ, it's further illustration of why they don't appear to understand the reaction.

If it was FWR that is the problem rather than Covid 19, surely Justine could just say so?

OK now guys, which one of you has locked Willis in here again, you know how awful they find it here...

Some of us would consider contributing financially, but MN has proven itself such a shower of shite wrt security issues, we are extremely reticent to do so, for very legitimate reasons

Indeed, given the way some of the women on here have been targeted via twitter, and MNHQs history of data breaches, its completely understandable that not many people want to risk their personal details.

Many people have suggested that a donation page is set up so users can pay what they want without having any link between their username and personal details but for some reason that's been dismissed 🤷‍♀️

What I'm saying isn't specific to the premium offer. These are general points.

Eh? What points? That we should be grateful?

They're not asking for our gratitude. They're asking for our money.

It honestly wouldn't matter how grateful I was. I still couldn't give them the money. It's impossible.

I contribute to tons of things. But I'm in no danger of being focused on. Linking to my username here, makes me a target.

It surely, honest to God, cannot be beyond possibility to organise a way of people contributing without outing them.

Yeah, I think donations would be a better way of doing it too.
I've been around for the Emma thing and the Jeff thing and can completely understand why people don't want to hand their financial details over.
I don't want to either.

Tutting at us for not being evasograteful, sir, for the ability to walk on eggshells to discuss physical reality, is really taking the piss, and it's that tone deafness that has chopped away at the loyalty MN might have expected if we hadn't been gaslit endlessly and then told we've never 'ad it so good.

Why are you so certain that it was gaslighting? Why can't you consider a scenario in which MN were losing actual money because of this board?

We don't want to know Vitreous? Why, are you Emma?

@MNHQ I will give you GBP 100 as a one off but I don’t want to subscribe.

Do you want this money and if so, how?

Sorry if i’m Repeating what others have said, but I could see a response anywhere.

The doxxing intern said she still had friends at MN who were going to “close down the transphobia”, so if I give you all my data I could get doxxed.

Why can't you consider a scenario in which MN were losing actual money because of this board?

It's an entirely separate issue. If this board is bringing mumsnet down, then Justine can close it down.

She is not suggesting that. She's suggesting we contribute.

We can speculate all the live long day about why she hasn't closed it down. But that's not the point. The point is she wants her money. And we can't give it to her under the current circumstances.

It's really not complicated.

*our money. Not her money.