Casual reference to women as "vessels"

[babynewt]

Occurred on gogglebox, the two guys sitting together the one with the curly brown shoulder length hair (stephen/Daniel) They were discussing the young surrogate in the "nest" when he stated, .."it would be like asking Waynetta to be your vessel" it was the casualness, of this type of language entering the mainstream that really concerned me. Furthermore it also has undertones of young, working class girls as not "good enough" even to be a "vessel" is it worth writing to the BBC as it's worrying for this to be entering mainstream.

This made me uncomfortable too

It was something along the lines of 'you'd want a better vessel wouldn't you?'

Vessel. It speaks volumes about their attitude to women doesn't it, misogyny doesn't even cover it.

Yep - complete casual misogyny. Just another example of the demolition of the term 'woman'.

An another example of why surrogacy should not be legally allowed

What do you mean “entering mainstream”? The term “vessel” for a woman carrying a baby has been mainstream for centuries.

I agree it’s problematic, but it’s more a throw back than anything new.

I saw that and that line caught my attention too.

Can't stand this pair. The older of the two recently made a comment about vaginas smelling "rancid". Reported it to Ofcom and never heard anything back. A nasty old misogynist.

"What do you mean “entering mainstream”? The term “vessel” for a woman carrying a baby has been mainstream for centuries."

I'd say it ceased to be mainstream quite some time ago. Like 'thee' and 'thou'; mainstream once, archaic language now.

It's bible-talk, yes?

I have no difficulty understanding what the poster means by "mainstream"...

Can't stand this pair. The older of the two recently made a comment about vaginas smelling "rancid". Reported it to Ofcom and never heard anything back. A nasty old misogynist

Yes I commented on that on here. It was absolutely foul. He is a real misogynist and gets away with it - I think although I am not really sure- because he is gay and it is assumed to be therefore amusing because women are not his 'thing'. Imagine the gruff bloke from Manchester saying the above and there not being an outcry.

Thing is, as bad as this pair are, producers allowed it to be aired.

Yes - it was thought to be acceptable.

Can't stand this pair. The older of the two recently made a comment about vaginas smelling "rancid". Reported it to Ofcom and never heard anything back. A nasty old misogynist

I reported that to Channel 4. He referred to Meghan Markle's 'rancid vagina'. It was so randomly vile - truly shockingly misogynist. I had a standard message back saying that Gogglebox is a representation of the viewing public, is unscripted, blah blah, sorry for any offence but deal with it essentially.

His disgust of women is unconcealed and disturbing.

I thought the whole thing was very telling about attitudes towards pregnancy and surrogacy. At the beginning of the programme everyone saw the unborn child as "the couple's baby" and the young woman as a "vessel". However as soon as the surrogate started doing things that may have damaged the foetus (e.g. binge drinking) people quickly decided the foetus was "her baby" and the couple should walk away. This is one of the major issues with surrogacy as far as I'm concerned.

I find it very telling that Channel 4 aired these disgusting views.

I find it very telling that Channel 4 aired these disgusting views

Me too. Can you imagine if they had called an adult black man 'boy' or a gay man 'poof'- both loaded words and wouldn't be aired.

Presumably they thought it was humorous (since women are the last safe target for offensive ‘jokes’ without consequence)

PlanDeRaccordement By entering mainstream, I mean words like "carrier" and "vessel" to describe surrogates are terms that I have heard banded about in recent years. My concern was with the casualness, the young woman, though fictional, was referred to, basically as a subhuman species, as though this is ok/acceptable. You mention the term to be "problematic" could you expand on this?

If Gogglebox is representative of the viewing public, it would be interesting to put to them what FreeKitties mentioned, would this be acceptable then, and would they have aired it?

That is the thing, while its rightly unacceptable to be racist or homophobic, being misogynistic is still perfectly acceptable. I think that partly its because women are not seen as important and also that we aren't seen as a vulnerable group. Theres a disbelief that sexism and misogyny are damaging.

Lots of people think that everything required to create a baby is contained in the egg and sperm and the womb is merely a "vessel" for the foetus until it's ready to be born (i.e. "she's got a bun in the oven"). Look at how many people seem to believe that a man could have a womb implanted and be able to gestate a baby.

As an aside, I decided I wouldn’t watch the nest as the subject matter too harrowing, like I can’t watch dramas where kids go missing (unless I definitely know at the beginning that all will be well at the end).

It’s a difficult balance as no one likes a preachy drama, but I think tv makers have such a responsibility to handle these subjects sensitively rather than leading the audience to reinforce dangerous stereotypes like these. Do you think this was the opinion they were expecting to elicit?

(Not excusing him though, the Meghan comment suggests this guy just sees women as a collection of superfluous unpalatable anatomy)

I hate this. Why isn’t this kind of language against women a hate crime.

Rancid vagina? Wtf? Imagine if it was a group of girls laughing about his bottom or whatever. I’m not going to type the equivalent.

I don’t watch gogglebox but I have enjoyed watching The Nest. I think it’s been cleverly done as I feel far more emotionally involved with the surrogate girl than the others although the wife’s plight has been incredibly moving.

I noticed it too, it really stood out.
You can imagine these two wanting a baby in the next few years and will be looking for a "vessel".

They're the only ones on the show I don't like, the casual misogyny and gross impressions of people are just awful. I'm sure he was better when his mam was on with him. It's a mostly wholesome show, I hope they drop them soon.