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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What constitutes modern day feminism

635 replies

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 10:45

What does it mean to be a feminist in the 21st century? When I and indeed the members of my family who I would consider to be feminist were growing up it was about fighting for equal rights for women such as equal pay and better representation of women in high powered jobs and given that the Labour Party has yet again elected a male leader says to me that there is still along way to go. However I and my family members find ourselves becoming more and more uncomfortable with what some might call the more extreme side of feminism.

I fear that certain views of feminism are allowing a rather unhealthy and quite hateful form especially in relation to trans rights. As a member of the lgbt community and although I’m not trans myself I do have friends who are and I also volunteer for a local charity who support and offer counselling to trans teenagers. I see first hand the damage done by the attitudes promoted and supported by some sections of the feminist community dressed up under the guise of ‘free speech’. The trans right issue is a complex one. I don’t think children should be allowed to transition or be given hormone blockers to prevent puberty because I’m not convinced a child has the maturity to make those kind of life changing decisions although that doesn’t mean I don’t believe that children can’t be trans because I see it everyday through my work with the charity and it’s a fact of great shame that at least 70% of young trans have self harmed or tried to commit suicide because of the prejudice they face.

The biggest contentious issue appears to be that of self indentification. I fail to see how it erodes my rights as a women if a trans person chooses to self identify and personally I find the notion that people chose to self identify because they want to harm others somewhat far fetched. Yes I accept that there are some sick indivuals that do this but the fact is the majority of sex offenders offend as men not men who are self identifying as female or the other wan around. I remember mixed sex changing rooms when I was growing up and I don’t remember a vast increase in sexual assay because of it.

Now despite being accused of it on here several times by people who hide behind the guise of feminism to attack anyone who dares to defend trans rights as someone who condones sexual assault I do not in fact as a surviour of sexual assault I find that extremely offensive. Anyone trans or otherwise who commits any kind of sexual assault deserves to be castrated and strung up. Maybe one way around the shared changing room or toilet issue would be to have single cubicles or toilets as we do at our charity so it doesn’t matter who uses them because there’s only u on there. As a parent and someone who works with children who have been absued I can totally understand the argument for parents wanting to know who the child is sharing a changing room with. Personally I wouldn’t allow my son or my nieces who I regularly look after our without a grown up until they were of teenager age and then allow in groups of friends.

I’ve no doubt that this post will either be ignored or removed as mums net seems to remove anything that resembles some who supports the rights of trans people but just as the people who use feminism to try and erode or stand Agasint trans rights I to have the right to express my opinion.

The debate of feminism and trans issues needs to be less toxic and more about open discussion and tolerance of others opinions will allowing healthy debate because trans people are people and have the same right to be heard and to be given the same freedoms as any other member of society. Do I think that all feminists are transphobic absolutely not and neither do I believe that all of the trans community min are good people. There’s good and bad in everyone and every group of society but since when is that a justification for the discrimination of a whole part of society

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Justhadathought · 05/04/2020 15:51

A lot of them have experienced sexual abuse

And does your service therefore explore this very serious issue of sexual abuse before affirming a trans identity? I would certainly hope so - otherwise that is not only deeply negligent, but unethical.

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 15:53
Grin
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Justhadathought · 05/04/2020 15:53

No I came on here for civilised debate something that is clearly lacking in the mums net community I was warned but like a challenge

Katienlisa.......you are not up to the challenge. That is clear. Calling people names is not civilised. Civilised debate requires listening to the points,, then addressing them in logical manner - with examples...as many of us have tried to do with you.

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 15:54

Yes we have specialised and highly trained youth workers and counsellors

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/04/2020 15:54

I guess we're all whiling away our time in any way we can. That's why people are responding to you, OP.

RedDogsBeg · 05/04/2020 15:54

Miscarriage doesn't just affect women physically and any woman whether or not they have experienced miscarriage and/or can't have children can fully understand that.

MarieQueenofScots · 05/04/2020 15:54

I would say too things trans women can’t understand the physical affects of miscarriage but then neither can I I can never have kids but does this make me less of a women I thing it was wrong that u had to shut down the group

Of course it doesn’t make you less of a woman. It does mean the group wasn’t appropriate for you - or rather these two sessions - weren’t. Sadly menz feels are more important than support for women. Now do you see why women are concerned their spaces are being eroded?

We can’t talk about the physical effects of miscarriage in case we offend a person who doesn’t even have the biological equipment to have one?

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 15:55

I’m always up for a challenge

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Seventyone72seventy3 · 05/04/2020 15:55

does this make me less of a women
No, of course not. Because if you are female, you are a woman.

However,
trans women can’t understand the physical affects of miscarriage
I would say that they also can't know what it feels like to be a woman. At most they can feel discomfort with being a man - but that is not the same as feeling like a woman. And even it were, it doesn't make you female. Sex is biological. I can still sympathise with people with gender dysphoria. I can still wish them well and hope they find peace as most people do. That doesn't mean I can believe they have actually changed sex because they don't feel male.

MrsDoylesTeaBags · 05/04/2020 15:55

I would say too things trans women can’t understand the physical affects of miscarriage but then neither can I I can never have kids but does this make me less of a women

I thought you had a 5 year old? Hmm

Justhadathought · 05/04/2020 15:55

I would say too things trans women can’t understand the physical affects of miscarriage but then neither can I I can never have kids but does this make me less of a women I thing it was wrong that u had to shut down the group

You said you had a five year old child, before?

I0NA · 05/04/2020 15:55

The bit I don’t understand, @katienlisa552 is this.

You say that a lot of the children you work with have been sexually abused, and 70% or 80% of them are mentally ill ( self hating or suicidal ).

So why do you think the best treatment for them is to give them dangerous puberty blocking drugs as children? Then wait until they are adults ( or their 16th birthday ), mutilate their bodies, castrate and sterilise them so they need to take cross sex hormones for life.

Don’t you think it would be better to get them counselling and therapy to deal with their abuse and dysphoria ? So they can grow up happy and healthy adults who may or may not be GNC or gay / lesbian. And who can have adult sexual relationships and children if they wish.

MarieQueenofScots · 05/04/2020 15:56

RedDogsBeg

Of course miscarriage effects aren’t just physical.

The sessions were part of a wider course of sessions; these particularly address long-term physical effects and damage at the request of women on the course. They were female only sessions, again at the request of the majority of the group.

FloralBunting · 05/04/2020 15:57

First rule of TRA club: keep your story straight.🤣😂🤣😂🤣

MrsDoylesTeaBags · 05/04/2020 15:57

Ereshkigalangcleg Yep

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 15:57

Well it certainly wouldn’t of offended me my sister had had several miscarriages and my sister in law suffered one two years ago I wouldn’t of joined a group like that I’m not sure why u would if u hadn’t suffered a miscarriage

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BovaryX · 05/04/2020 15:57

Hmm, so far
So far your antics are like watching a mouse trying to bait a leopard.......

Justhadathought · 05/04/2020 15:57

Yes we have specialised and highly trained youth workers and counsellors

What sort of training, I wonder? Only positive affirmation? Certainly not the type of training or approach that is normal in psycho-therapies.

MrsDoylesTeaBags · 05/04/2020 15:58

Oh I wasn't the only one to spot that then Grin

Week 2 into lock down, I wonder what week 3 will offer?

MarieQueenofScots · 05/04/2020 15:59

Well it certainly wouldn’t of offended me my sister had had several miscarriages and my sister in law suffered one two years ago I wouldn’t of joined a group like that I’m not sure why u would if u hadn’t suffered a miscarriage

Well quite. And yet we received hateful messages about excluding transwomen to the point where we decided we simply couldn’t go ahead because we felt at risk.

So much for this all encompassing sisterhood of women, huh?

TinselAngel · 05/04/2020 15:59

It really shows the misogynistic view that trans activists have of women, that a poster like this expects to turn up here and automatically outsmart us all.

MrsDoylesTeaBags · 05/04/2020 15:59

Definitely no safeguarding training Justhadathought

RedDogsBeg · 05/04/2020 16:00

No I came on here for civilised debate something that is clearly lacking in the mums net community I was warned but like a challenge

No you didn't, you have offered nothing in the way of debate, you can't/won't answer or address any of the questions and points put to you, you can't/won't back up any of your assertions, you just throw out meaningless one liners - that is not debate, not even close, so don't start dismissing MN FWR as being unable to engage in civilised debate when it is you who cannot.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/04/2020 16:00

Well quite. And yet we received hateful messages about excluding transwomen to the point where we decided we simply couldn’t go ahead because we felt at risk.

Angry
I0NA · 05/04/2020 16:01

Is that why there are a lot of children who are diagnosed with asd who have gender issues

Are you saying that lots of the ‘ trans ‘ children you work with also have a diagnosis of ASD? As well as lots more who sexually abused and mentally ill ?