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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Petition based on lies and misinformation

83 replies

Stealhsquirrelnutkin · 29/03/2020 22:25

twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1244332324671688712

This really is nauseating. A petition full of lies and misinformation has been posted on change.org in an attempt to prevent the LGB Alliance from being granted charity status.

As an old lesbian I am horrified that this kind of propaganda is being spread. Stonewall, the charity we set up and supported for decades has betrayed us completely. Their website now claims that homosexuality is a medical term for "orientation towards someone of the same gender".

Homosexuality is not, and never was an attraction to people who identify with the same gender based stereotypes. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation, and homosexuals are attracted to people of the same sex. Telling young lesbians that they are bigots and transphobes because they can't train themselves to "cope" with the "female" penis is horrendously cruel, and deeply homophobic. Bisexuals are attracted to both sexes, if they were also attracted to all genders they would call themselves pansexual, not bi. Stonewall went looking for a way to stay relevant and well funded after gay marriage was attained, latched on to transgenderism and has been lobbying to undermine our rights and legal protections ever since.

We never wanted to have to go our own way. We wanted the organisation we created, Stonewall, to stand up for our legal rights. Only when it became completely clear that they had no intention of doing so, and in fact were lobbying hard to change existing laws that protect our sex based rights and right to our own sexual orientation did a new organisation become necessary.

Nobody is working to undermine or destroy Stonewall, we are happy to leave them to continue their chosen work of centering transgender people, and those who happily identify themselves as queer, along with all the other letters of the alphabet. We have just given up on hoping that they will represent us, and have chosen to leave and set up our own representation. To claim this is evidence of transphobia is nonsense. We are fully within our rights to build a group that supports our own special needs.

The LGB alliance centres the needs of lesbians, gays and bisexuals and stands up for our rights, it was greeted with relief and joy by lesbians, gays and bisexuals who had been watching in horror as Stonewall worked to erase us from history and from our own organisation.

The petition is purposefully misleading, it quotes biased articles from Pink News as if they were academic reference papers. I've reported it for being misleading, homophobic and hateful, and hope you will too.

OP posts:
I0NA · 30/03/2020 14:37

Great post R0wantrees. So much useful info

R0wantrees · 30/03/2020 14:38

BBC
'Ex prison chief expresses concern about trans women in female jails
The former governor of Cornton Vale, Rhona Hotchkiss, says that in her experience it is "always an issue to have trans women in with female prisoners”.

www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-scotland-51452489/ex-prison-chief-expresses-concern-about-trans-women-in-female-jails

Excellent speech worth listening to:
ForWomen.Scot :: 31 Jan 2020 :: Rhona Hotchkiss

"Rhona Hotchkiss, LLM, BSc (Hons), spent her working life in the public sector, firstly as a critical care nurse and then manager and for the last 10 years as a Governor in the Prison Service. She retired in March 2019. A life-long lesbian feminist, she has decided to speak openly about her experience of how gender self-id does and will impact on women in prison."

CuriousaboutSamphire · 30/03/2020 14:38

Oh the Deadwood Stage is a-rollin' on over the plains
With the curtains flappin' and the driver slappin' the reins
A beautiful sky, a wonderful day
Whip crack-away, whip crack-away, whip crack-away....

TinselAngel · 30/03/2020 14:46

Here's a great speech from Kate Harris from the LGB Alliance at the Recent Make More Noise event where "hate crime" was discussed.

If only all those involved in this debate had a sense of humour like Kate:

R0wantrees · 30/03/2020 14:51

HorseRadishFemish the words of Allison Bailey are, in my opinion, 'fine' (of very high quality) :

I’ve recently had the privilege of joining and helping to get off the ground the newly formed the LGB Alliance. It’s an organisation that seeks to serve the interests and protect the rights of same-sex attracted people.

Contrary to what is being said online, we are emphatically not transphobic. We are not a transphobic organisation. However, we are opposed to the rank misogyny and homophobia that has found a home in too many parts of the modern trans movement. We are also opposed to the absence of all safeguarding measures that is intrinsic to the ideology of gender self-ID.

Finally, we are opposed to what we regard as an extremist trans agenda being advanced in a climate of deliberate fear and intimidation from all quarters, but that is specifically targeted at women, viciously, and especially viciously at women of colour." (continues)
womansplaceuk.org/2019/10/31/freedom-of-speech-allison-bailey-introduces-a-womans-place-is-at-the-lectern/

8/11/19 Roll on Friday:
Lesbian barrister investigated for setting up LGB group
By Jamie Hamilton
(extract)
A lesbian barrister says she has been "thrown under the bus" by her chambers, which is investigating her for setting up a lesbian, gay and bisexual group that opponents claim is transphobic.

Allison Bailey, a barrister at Garden Court Chambers, has received death threats for promoting LGB Alliance on social media.

The new group says its aim is to "counteract the confusion" in the public sector between sex, which is biologically determined, and gender, which is a social construct often based on stereotypical characteristics of men and women.

LGB Alliance argues that homosexuality is same-sex attraction, putting it in opposition to the UK's largest LGBT charity, Stonewall, which now defines homosexuality as same-gender attraction. Stonewall’s interpretation enables male-bodied people to identify as lesbians and female-bodied people to identify as gay men.

Bailey said the "bigger picture" was that Stonewall had "signed up many companies, public bodies, voluntary organisations and government departments to their manifesto and their value system regarding trans rights", and has been "so successful" that the "planned compulsory education in primary and secondary schools from 2020 will tell children that 'gender identity' is a reality they need to understand".

Bailey's new group argues that telling children who do not conform to gender stereotypes that they are born in the wrong body is "damaging and regressive". It also believes that, contrary to the stance promoted by Stonewall and trans rights activists, sex "is not ‘assigned’ at birth but observed", and that the "soaring numbers of teenage girls suddenly presenting as trans is evidence of social contagion and discomfort about lesbianism". (continues)
Bailey said Garden Court had "simply gone along with what the hate mob want" and were "offering me no support whatsoever". She added that she had "no faith" its complaints process would be conducted fairly. One factor which might lead her to that conclusion is fellow Garden Chambers barrister Alex Sharpe, a transwoman and trans rights activist.

Sharpe, who presumably gives Bailey a wide berth at the office, has previously said lesbians should consider why they won't sleep with transwomen who identify as lesbians, and has implied that lesbians who don’t question their attraction to people of the same sex are being unethical. Referring to the ‘cotton ceiling’, a term coined by trans rights activists to describe lesbians' refusal to have sex with people with penises, Sharpe tweeted, "Cotton ceiling. There is nothing wrong with asking people to reflect on preferences where they exclude a whole class of ppl”. Sharpe added, “If X likes white guys, but only white guys, he should not be forced or pressured to have sex with non-white guys, but it might be ethical to reflect on why". (continues)
www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/lesbian-barrister-investigated-setting-lgb-group

TinselAngel · 30/03/2020 14:53

Do we know what the result of Allison's chambers investigation was? R0?

LadyQuarantinaPluckington · 30/03/2020 15:01

Lesbians, Gay men and Bisexuals of both sexes are perfectly legally entitled to organize around the issues pertaining to their sexuality, without reference to the genderist quasi-religious beliefs of anyone else.

It is not hate for LGB people to resist colonization by a group with a different agenda. And that is really all there is to it.

R0wantrees · 30/03/2020 15:03

Allison Bailey, Garden Court Chambers:
www.gardencourtchambers.co.uk/barristers/allison-bailey/sao

TinselAngel · 30/03/2020 15:05

Excellent. Glad she's still there.

Datun · 30/03/2020 15:09

I may not be outside, but dayam, the sunlight sure is blinding on here.

R0wantrees · 30/03/2020 15:22

Louis Brandeis (American lawyer and associate justice on the Supreme Court of the United States from 1916 to 1939)

"Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants"

Petition based on lies and misinformation
I0NA · 30/03/2020 15:24

🕶

Apollo440 · 30/03/2020 15:28

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Datun · 30/03/2020 15:45

⛱ 👒☀️🏖

TinselAngel · 30/03/2020 15:57

Old Tinsel saying: "those who hear deafening echoes generally dwell in chambers".

R0wantrees · 30/03/2020 15:59

Fred Sargeant twitter comment,
"One way supporters can help is to go to the petition, skip signing and scroll to the bottom of the page to report the discriminatory intent of the petition. It's easy."

twitter.com/FredSargeant/status/1244424033589964802

Velvet Chronicle by JULIA DIANA ROBERTSON
February 16, 2020

'Stonewall Vet Fred Sargeant on Ellen Broidy: “This is one of those important unknown stories.”
(extract)
"Fred Sargeant recently reached out to make sure I’ve heard this story—to make sure I know about Ellen Broidy.

If you don’t know who Fred Sargeant is, you should—He was on the team of four that organized the first-ever gay liberation march that took place on June, 28, 1970. Ellen Broidy was on that team as well. Sargeant’s concerned about how lesbians, like her, are so often pushed to the sidelines, or omitted from his-story altogether.

It’s heartwarming that he’s reached out with this. Far too often, we’ve seen lesbians spark a movement, only to watch as credit is redistributed to the male standing closest to her in a room. Maybe he’s not even in the room. Maybe he’s sleeping on a park bench uptown.

We’re not only sidelined or omitted, these days it seems we’re only unearthed if it serves the current revisionist narrative—We’re watching an overwhelmingly male-dominated media revise our history, reassigning our sheroes, ‘he-roes,’ at death.

One of the most glaring examples of this, is what’s happened with Stormé DeLarverie, the Black butch lesbian who threw the first punch at Stonewall and gave the call to arms that kicked off a revolution—“Why don’t you do something!?” She’s not only had credit stolen, been sidelined and omitted, she’s been rebranded, postmortem, as “he.” And mainstream media couldn’t care less about how upsetting this is to the lesbian community—to the people that knew and loved her.

Fred Sargeant was there, and he’s trying to help keep gay and lesbian history intact.

One year after DeLarverie threw that first punch, the first gay liberation march took place, and Fred Sargeant, along with Ellen Broidy, Craig Rodwell and Linda Rhodes, founded that first-ever march—an event that now takes place every year." (continues)
thevelvetchronicle.com/stonewall-vet-fred-sargeant-on-ellen-broidy-this-is-one-of-those-important-unknown-stories/

Petition based on lies and misinformation
PertEllaTitsahoy · 30/03/2020 16:02

But what about us heterosexuals, why are we being excluded? What about uuuuuussssssssss you bigots? 😒

R0wantrees · 30/03/2020 16:11

There is something deeply uncivil about privileged heterosexual white folk seeking to silence and/or coerce lesbians by appropriating the experiences of black women, children & men under race segregation in US or South Africa.

Boireannachlaidir · 30/03/2020 16:18

He's blocked me too @littlbrowndog I've never interacted with him either but it's par for the course. Anyone who follows or likes any GC content is on a block list. They can't back up their arguments online with intelligent people I suspect.

EverythingChanges321 · 30/03/2020 16:19

I’m so pleased to have found this section of Mumsnet.

I for one am increasingly concerned about this erosion of the term ‘sex’ in favour of gender on official documents/forms etc and I cross out the word ‘gender’ and replace it with ‘sex’ every single time.

I’m so glad to read these threads and to realise that there are many other ordinary older women like me, who are also feeling disgruntled with the obvious erosion of our hard fought rights, as if we are no longer
relevant.

PertEllaTitsahoy · 30/03/2020 16:22

I honestly dont see how LGBA is anything like Apartheid. Trans people arent excluded from the LGBA, it's just their trans status wont be centred as part of the movement. But obviously that would never to for the majority of trans people.

Just like I, as a heterosexual woman, can support their aims without kicking off that my sexual orientation is being excluded.

R0wantrees · 30/03/2020 16:32

I honestly dont see how LGBA is anything like Apartheid.

Its not.

LGB Alliance is advocating for the rights & well-being of lesbians, gay men & bisexual people.

Scottish Trans Alliance advocates for the rights & well-being of people who identify as transgender based in Scotland.

Hmm

Its a not uncommon false allegation made by transactivists that sex based Safeguarding and/or rights are akin to race segregation.

eg Susie Green (Mermaids CEO)
Guardian May 2018
'Schools pulled into row over helping transgender children
As more teens come out as trans, experts clash over how schools should help'
(extract)
While the Allsorts advice states that “trans pupils or students should have access to the changing room that corresponds to their gender identity” and that in PE lessons, students “should be enabled to participate in the activity which corresponds to their gender identity if this is what they request”, [Stephanie] Davies-Arai argues that shared changing rooms present difficulties for some girls. Few teenage girls will be willing to admit that they feel uncomfortable sharing a changing room with a biologically male student, she says.

She points out that the technical guidance on the Equality Act for schools suggests offering students “private changing facilities, such as the staff changing room or another suitable space” – the approach taken at Miles’s school.

Susie Green, CEO of the charity Mermaids, disagrees, saying the debate about single-sex toilets seems “engineered to whip up fear” and is equivalent to “arguing people of colour shouldn’t be allowed to use the same toilets as white people in case they make them dirty”. (continues)

www.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/15/transgender-row-teachers-afraid-challenge-breast-binding

PertEllaTitsahoy · 30/03/2020 18:44

Would I be wrong in saying that even under Apartheid men did not use womens toilets, regardless of skin colour.

LastTrainEast · 30/03/2020 19:21

Reported.

LadyMuckish · 30/03/2020 19:31

I'm wading in here too, I've been watching this on the sidelines far too long now, reported that petition and you'll all probably be hearing more from this uppity feminist bitch.

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