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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Oxford University ban society that no-platformed Amber Rudd

15 replies

BINtersectionalFeminism · 22/03/2020 11:23

This feels like a lifetime ago, but the proctors have banned the society and they have to issue an apology -

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8138597/amp/Oxford-university-officials-ban-society-no-platformed-Amber-Rudd.html?__twitter_impression=true

OP posts:
CheriLittlebottom · 22/03/2020 11:24

There's something to feel cheerful about!

JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown · 22/03/2020 11:48

Pleased to hear it. That was ridiculous, and inviting her then cancelling right at the last minute was disgraceful. Not the way adults behave.

NonnyMouse1337 · 22/03/2020 11:51

Banning a student society for deplatforming? Surely a better option would be to ask them to host an event on free speech and how to engage in debates with people you don't agree with?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 22/03/2020 11:58

The society has ben de-registered, not banned. That means that if they choose to, they can get their collective act together, write up another society outline and re-present it to the Proctor. If they include promises not to flout free speech requirements then they may be allowed to re-register!

It isn't a shut out, more being sent to the naughty corner until they can show they have changed their attitude!

FlockofGulls · 22/03/2020 12:02

Yes, I agree @NonnyMouse1337 I don't think banning anything is the way to go here.

I'm equally perturbed by suggestions - pre-COVID19 (a whole other world, it feels) - that the government would legislate to ensure free speech & freedom of thought in universities.

We've lost the plot if we have to legislate for academic freedom. And 'm optimistic enough to think we're not quite there -- yet.

R0wantrees · 22/03/2020 12:05

Are the proctors taking similar actions against other societies & individuals who have limited women's free speech at Oxford?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3803784-Selina-Todd-threats-security-wrong-side-of-history-my-arse

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3416980-Oxford-students-going-after-Jenni-Murray-again

CuriousaboutSamphire · 22/03/2020 12:10

We can hope so, R0wan strong, consistent message etc....

And again, they haven't been banned. The society has been de-registered so won't be able to access any support, funding, use of computers etc, through the University. It can still exist. It just won't get any help from the Proctor.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 22/03/2020 12:18

This is good to see - and long overdue.

R0wantrees · 22/03/2020 12:22

6/3/2020 Evening Standard article,
UN women's group urged Oxford society not to invite Amber Rudd ahead of cancelled event over 'risk of conflict'

concludes:
"Oxford University criticised the cancellation of the event.

The university said: "We strongly disapprove of the decision by the UNWomen Oxford UK Society to disinvite Amber Rudd after she had been asked to speak.

"Oxford is committed to freedom of speech & opposes no-platforming.

"We will be taking steps to ensure that this situation doesn't happen in future.

Education minister Gavin Williamson slammed the students for the cancellation.

Mr Williamson said: "It is not enough to adopt free speech codes if they are not enforced.

“I expect the University of Oxford to take robust action over these incidents – and if universities are not prepared to defend free speech, the government will.”

The event's cancellation was also met with criticism online.

The Oxford University student union has been contacted for comment. The National Union of Students declined to comment.

An event with Selina Todd, a history professor at the university, was cancelled last week over allegations that she holds transphobic views.

Ms Todd "refuted" claims she was transphobic in an interview with the BBC"
www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/amber-rudd-no-platform-oxford-a4380766.html

FlockofGulls · 22/03/2020 12:44

Thanks for the correction Curious - I work at a university with a no no-platforming policy, which means that we have to do extra duty & diligence in making the good arguments to drive out the bad arguments (eg about race/racism).

It's a duty and a responsibility, but I think it's worth it.

teawamutu · 22/03/2020 12:58

They said they'd take action and they took action. Pleasantly surprised.

And it's good action, too - essentially telling them to give their heads a wobble and come back when they're ready to act like adults.

NonnyMouse1337 · 22/03/2020 13:01

Thanks for clarifying that, CuriousaboutSamphire.

I think it's still a good idea to encourage these groups on developing skills to debate and interact with people they disagree with. It will help them in the real world.

BINtersectionalFeminism · 22/03/2020 13:51

Apologies for the confusion, I lazily just used the Mail headline as the title.

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FlockofGulls · 22/03/2020 14:51

I think it's still a good idea to encourage these groups on developing skills to debate and interact with people they disagree with. It will help them in the real world

I've been thinking quite a lot about this. And thinking about my personal friendships, and the sticky points where I disagree with friends about various issues and when that matters, and when I accept that we disagree, but we're still friends. It's an important thing to think about.

As an academic, I trade in arguments, debates, and building knowledge through discussion. It can mean disagreement - either on details, or whole approaches. But it doesn't mean (hopefully) that such disagreements negate the work anyone does. Students need to learn this.

But there's a particular problem over transactivism and disagreement. This isn't what the Amber Rudd thing was - that was about her party politics - but it's at the centre of a lot of debates over free speech.

There's a conflation between discussing the boundaries and regulations of those who wish to be recognised legally as the other gender (you can't change sex) and the possible conflicts between the rights of transpeople and women, as another vulnerable protected class of people.

Transactivists, (and students influenced by them) see any discussion of trans issues as "denying their existence." Ditto any doubts about the "transwomen are women" mantra. They use this to try to block any further discussion, and name it hate speech.

Hmmmm, we have always discussed the conditions of "being" someone in identity politics. Women's existences, particularly, have been discussed for millennia, and erasure is our standard normalcy - just see Criado-Perez's book for the most recent examples of the erasure of women.

We don't stop the debate, but we argue against the manels, the setting up of the male body/biology/gender role as the default. And so on and so on.

But that is currently endangered by a readiness to ditch free speech.

nettie434 · 22/03/2020 15:01

I think deregistering as explained by CuriousAboutSamphire makes sense. I think it is something other universities should consider too.

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