Improving toilet access for women by reducing the time it takes to pee

[JellySlice]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51293676

Interesting stuff, but then:

^But the best option was to install gender-neutral cubicles, with optional urinals for men, which delivered even greater time savings for women.
"For the unisex scenario, there's higher utilisation of your resources and inevitably leads to less waiting," says Professor Wouter Rogiest, one of the study's authors. "This [also] caters for the needs of transgender [people]." ^

Really? Maybe in computer simulations, but in RL the queues would probably be even more reduced by the number of women who choose not to join it.

I am also wondering about that [also]. Did the editors insert it for 'clarity'? Or replace a longer clause for brevity? Because the sentence has a subtly different implication without it.

The last sentence of the article sums it up brilliantly, we don’t need different womens toilets, just more of them!

I read this and felt like I should go and see how this works on their website. It still involves squatting which at my age, I am less inclined to do.

To me it seemed a non story. Surely the only saving of time is that you don’t have wipe the seat after use?

I literally do not understand how to use this.
Also, I don’t want to pee in front of other people.

Aren't those just adult sized potties joined together?

Can't work out how you use them, squat and hope you don't piss on the floor/down your legs? Are they to be used in a group (three people say bum to bum?)? Where's toilet paper?

Can't imagine them catching on much.

It seems to be a normal toilet pan with no rim or seat ie. You cannot sit you have to semi squat.

madamepee.com/

It still looks messy for dealing with clothes and I doubt it will have less wee on the floor as happens with women and clothing and semi squatting. So great if you have excellent semi squatting ability and strong bladder muscles so you are not hanging there for long and don’t have problematic bulky clothes etc.

I could not work out the pic they actually used in the article. I have no idea how to use those.

I can't squat as my knees are fucked with arthritis.

the pink ones are lapee. Do a google search and they are for festival goers. No real privacy and rely on women in line making sure others keep out I guess.

They've made the usual mistake of assuming we're taking only 1.5 to two times as long as men (we actually take more than three times as long); only considered urinating, and only for fit and young women; no mention of wiping at all (I mean I'm not a festival goer, so no toilet paper may be standard there, but for ordinary toilets it's a decrease in hygiene and comfort not to be able to wipe after peeing for women); no account of children, menstruation, pregnancy, women being cared for etc.

The only accurate thing in that article - as happydappy2 says - is that providing more toilets for women is the answer, not urinals many of us can't use.

Few men are physically unable to use urinals, so their prevalence makes sense. It doesn't for women as many of us cannot squat and most of us need to wipe.

www.lapee.dk

I can see how you use them if you wear skirts, but otherwise, no.

Plus I just think it’s another horrendous “removing privacy” idea.

The lapee is also designed so you can see what else is happening. Yes... so people can still squat and aim with that degree of accuracy by the end of the night with alcohol/drugs/tiredness??! And obviously no periods for the women using them....

I'll stick to my toilet bucket tent just as I have done for years.

I've just youtubed some lapee vids.

Number 1 - the one journalist who actually tried them, found the first in a disgusting state, filled with poo and paper - so it needs to be made clear that they aren't any good for that.

Number 2 - she was specifically wearing a short skirt, but still seemed to have difficulty pulling her pants down and balancing (not helped because she had a microphone, but still - she wasn't even slightly tipsy).

Number 3 - it didn't seem any faster to me - she still had to do all the same stuff, but now balanced over slippery plastic. I imagine the only time saving is women wanting to get the hell out of there.

I just can't see how after a couple, you're going to manage to stay upright, with your shorts/jeans screwed up round your knees (or the alternative, round your ankles, inevitably in whatever else has been excreted/spilled there). Men are just going to stroll over and use them too, so there will be wee everywhere for you to dangle your trousers in.

It's not rocket science. Just fucking provide more toilets for women.

Do women still need to be naked from the waist to the knee/ankle to toilet?

Should I buy jumpsuits/ dungarees with a new special zip??

Oh I agree that there's a heck of a lot of assumptions around how women use toilets, and ignoring the things that constrain us (knees, inability to aim, clothes, children, etc). But it is an interesting way of considering the issue. It's clearly aimed at the young festival-goer with an intact perineum and vulva.

I've come across the Lapee before (online!) and what struck me about the concept was that in order to work it depends on the peeing-in-a-group mentality that is extremely common among women. IIRC the walls curve down so that only the occupants' heads can be seen while they're using it. So the user can be seen and other women will know not to enter. She can see out, too, but only really in the direction that someone would use to approach the pod she is using, so she is dependent upon other women being present to protect her from anyone with malign intent approaching her pod from any other direction. In other words, the Lapee, designed to reduce queuing for women, requires a queue of women for it to work.

yes Jelly

it also just makes access to women easier for predatory men.

So, have my knickers down and no door? I don't think so.

And don't get me started on the hovering above the not-present-seat. I really don't think my knees are up to that.

Can,t see them working beyond drunk festival goers using them for the novelty.

Obviously from the video many have the problem that they don’t realise they need to do the no 2 until they have done the no 1 (or at least when drunk.

It is the getting up after where privacy is most needed.

I have visited Japanese toilets which require standing astride and squatting and they suffer badly from misdirection and it is hard to keep your trouser legs out of it.

The french one looks not unlike any other french non squatter, ie toilet with no seat and will suffer from the same no 2 problem as the others.

Anyone who designs a new women's loo should get it tested by a full age range of women, including mothers with small children, women with dodgy knees/backs, full range of clothing types....

I just wouldn’t use it and I’d probably end up with a uti from holding it in.

Men don't make eye contact with others when peeing, even disgusting public urinals have them facing a wall. Why would women want to make eye contact and pee?

Also, what about when you need to get tampons/pads changed? I quite often only realise my period is starting when in the loo.

The answer is sufficient loos for women, not these ridiculous things.

Why would women want to make eye contact and pee?

Because our peeing posture is inherently vulnerable. Unless we are behind a locked door that males cannot get through, we have to be able to see what's coming.

It's an old article, but not much has changed:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28039513

Yes but does anyone want to be in public and making eye contact with others whilst on the loo?

I mean, in an emergency situation like a war Refugee camp I could understand coping with it, but at a planned festival? The organisers just can't be arsed to provide decent facilities?

Obviously from the video many have the problem that they don’t realise they need to do the no 2 until they have done the no 1 (or at least when drunk.

my male DP doesn't get that I don't always know - he always goes specifically for a poo, but if I find myself weeing, then I may also realise when there that have further deposits to make, which is of course fine, because I'm sitting down on the toilet anyway. These surprise poos aren't normally urgent, but who knows at a festival, eating god knows what and drinking. In any case, remembering that I'm in a urinal, and shouldn't poo is something that men just wouldn't ever think of as a problem.