Trans actors can play cis but cis can't play trans. Why am I bothering to try and see the sense?

[Doyoumind]

A trans woman was due to play a woman in a play but declined when it turned out a trans woman would be played by a man. As far as I can tell, the trans character undergoes no medical or surgical transition so would have a wholly male physique anyway.

The casting decision could cause violence and death, apparently.

I'm sure the talent pool is limited just down the numbers. Would it have been acceptable for a woman to play the part?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8098373/Transgender-actress-Kate-ODonnell-pulls-Breakfast-Pluto-musical-casting-row.html

Lest we miss it, said trans actor shed tears over this. Womanly essence enhanced.

I saw this in the Guardian too, I had some sympathy until I read this quote When you do this it just perpetuates the idea that trans women are men … They are dressing up and misleading people. Also, creatively, it is just not interesting. To see a man in a dress, which is kind of what it will be, it reminds people of blacking up.

I know, I feel it's like an episode of Brass Eye and at some time the curtains will be pulled back and everyone will laugh.

Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.

The trans actor could have got loads of publicity for playing the female part and celebrated a trans woman getting a mainstream female role.

I've got a feeling this production is going to be sympathetic towards the trans plight and they have actively looked for a trans actor for the trans part. It just shows in TRA land nothing you do however well intentioned is good enough.

"Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men"

This makes no sense, and I do not believe this actually happened. I suspect Kate quit (or was let go) for some other reason and is just trying to look noble.

My main complaint and it is a complaint, is the use of the word cis man several times in the article.

Didn't the Guardian style guide ban the use of the word "cis"? Definitely worth a complaint.

The idea that a trans woman can play a woman, but only a trans person can play a trans person, is deeply idiotic, but it's what we've come to expect.

royalcorgi
I spoke to the complaints department at the Guardian. Apparently the article does conform to their guidelines because the word is not used in the title or tags and is about the trans experience compared to non trans one.
Here are the guidelines
Cisgender/ cis
A person whose identity aligns with their sex observed at birth. From the Latin cis, meaning “on the same side”. Used when comparing the trans experience with that of the non-trans population, eg how trans men and cis men navigate the health service. Avoid talking about trans women v women, or trans men v men. As this is a relatively new term, talk to editors if you are planning to use it in furniture

'A person whose identity aligns with their sex observed at birth'. But very few who 'fit the category' actually use the term. It is a term foist upon people when they don't want or need it. At least they said 'sex observed at birth' I suppose.

So they are effectively moving from 'talking about trans women v women' to 'talking about women v c** women.

Any any Latin scholar will scoff at this feeble explanation. I guess that's the 'wiki' definition!

So they are effectively moving from 'talking about trans women v women' to 'talking about women v c women.

For which reason, I'd be inclined at the moment to leave references to Cis men for men to notice and think about.

My favourite comment on the Mail article is I was outraged when I discovered Johnny Depp wasn't a real pirate.

The producers are falling over themselves to say how hard they tried to find a transwoman to play the role.

They haven't told us how hard they tried to find a middle-aged actress to play the mother role. I am surprised there were none. There are lots of young female actresses so do 99% of them spontaneously combust after menopause?

There is a difference between a man in a dress and a Trans Woman. One is masculine-identifying, the other is feminine-identifying. Without this difference there would be no Trans.

How can we tell the difference?

having an actor who was born male playing a trans woman increases prejudice because "many people internalise the myth that being trans is a performance, a deception, that trans women are 'really men'."

This is the biggest dollop of nonsense I’ve ever seen, in a whole heap of bloody nonsense.

@Mockerswithnoknockers Didn't he dodge the Vietnam Draft by saying he was Australian in the USA and a US Citizen in Australia - Now that's being what you're not.

Not a supporter or fan of Mel Gibson, but he was 16 In 1972 when conscription stopped in Australia. Conscripts were 20.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with anything to do with this thread. Sorry.

I have a sneaking suspicion that an actor likes drama

Their statement:

O'Donnell said: "I could not be in a show where a trans woman is once again seen as a man in a dress as this perpetuates the idea that this is what a trans woman is and leads to violence, even death.

Most likely reality:
Audiences find it easier to follow the story when a transwoman character is played by an actor who was born male. Audiences say they have little interest in the actor's personal life, they care about the quality of the performance they have come to watch.

This is just sad.

Velociraptors and other dinosaurs were oppressed because they were assigned reptile at hatching. It's awfully hard to identify as mammalian, however warm your blood might feel, when everyone knows your mother wasn't viviparous.

If only everyone had been kinder and more understanding, perhaps they'd still be with us.

Glenda Jackson should play EVERY role.

She’s awesome.

Problem solved.

Is there a chance a trans woman would be put off the part if the character is mid transition and you were asking them to play a man for the first half... triggering/literal violence?

If a man playing a trans woman in a play perpetuates the myth that transwomen are just a bloke in a dress - why do actual blokes in dresses that don't physically transition get accepted by the trans community. Why do drag queens get accepted. Why do gender fluid men like that Pippa character I think it is get accepted. Why men with beards?

That statement to me is that they only want transwomen to be passing ones so that they can be more accepted as real women. Which is the oppersite of the current policy.

That statement to me is that they only want transwomen to be passing ones so that they can be more accepted as real women.

The actor who resigned definitely only doesn't want passing men who identify as women to be classed as transwomen, because

1. they don't pass
2. they said having both roles played by men who identify as women would be powerful and more interesting.

This is getting silly now. I can’t believe the irony of someone who wasn’t born female playing the part of a mother and whinging that a man was playing a trans part.

There is a difference between a man in a dress and a Trans Woman. One is masculine-identifying, the other is feminine-identifying. Without this difference there would be no Trans.

But I've seen transwomen that don't act feminine at all. I've also seem men that are very feminine and arnt trans. So how does that make sense?

Could a feminine gay man play a trans character then?