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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans actors can play cis but cis can't play trans. Why am I bothering to try and see the sense?

134 replies

Doyoumind · 11/03/2020 15:06

A trans woman was due to play a woman in a play but declined when it turned out a trans woman would be played by a man. As far as I can tell, the trans character undergoes no medical or surgical transition so would have a wholly male physique anyway.

The casting decision could cause violence and death, apparently.

I'm sure the talent pool is limited just down the numbers. Would it have been acceptable for a woman to play the part?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8098373/Transgender-actress-Kate-ODonnell-pulls-Breakfast-Pluto-musical-casting-row.html

OP posts:
Reginabambina · 11/03/2020 17:23

@Cheeseandwin5 of course there as many female transgender people as men. Females that undergo transition are trans men, did you mean male rather than men?

Languishingfemale · 11/03/2020 17:23

Errol has the solution upthread: trans people for trans parts only, women for women's, men for men's. Easy.

Lordfrontpaw · 11/03/2020 17:24

What a load of nonsense.

In primary school I played Dorothy in the wizard of oz, and my friend played the wicked witch. The old cow of a drama teacher said that my friend got the play the nasty witch because the was such a lovely girl, and I got to play sweet little Dorothy because... (hey I didn’t care - I got to play Dorothy!)

Mockerswithnoknockers · 11/03/2020 17:25

...Or let's go back to Shakespearean Theatre and ban the girlies altogether.

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 11/03/2020 17:27

I’m holding out for only Scottish actors to play Scots. I am oppressed by atrocious faux Scots accents. It’s colonialism! From the oppressor!

💪💪💪😁

I want all the TV surgeons to be played by actual medics! (& tv CPR should be banned but that’s a different rant)

SophocIestheFox · 11/03/2020 17:31

I’m still not over the dinosaurs being CGId into Jurassic Park.

Don’t they know what the unemployment rates are like for velociraptors? I know any number of them who’d have had Spielbergs arm off for the chance of a part.

Mockerswithnoknockers · 11/03/2020 17:31

I want all the TV surgeons to be played by actual medics!

The story there is that John Hodge, an actual junior hospital doctor, wrote the screenplay for Trainspotting and what with the low budget roped in a lot of his hospital mates as extras, so your wish comes true.

Trouble was, director Danny Boyle was not happy with the (actual) nurse in the Perfect Day scene and the way she puts the needle in Ewan McGregor's (proper Scottash accent) arm.

Boyle was insistent. He needed to see the needle going in. Nurse was insistent. This was the way to do it, with the needle covered by the hand. Director got his way in the end. Art trumps Life everytime.

isabellerossignol · 11/03/2020 17:35

I’m still not over the dinosaurs being CGId into Jurassic Park.

Maybe it was the lack of acting opportunities and recognition that killed the dinosaurs? They literally died because their feelings were hurt so badly.

FrankieManca · 11/03/2020 17:35

But if the diktat is that ‘sex bad, gender good’ what does it matter what sex the actor is?

All acting is appearing to identify as the character. Confused

I feel as if I have drunk from a bottle labelled ‘Drink Me!’.

FrankieManca · 11/03/2020 17:37

Don’t they know what the unemployment rates are like for velociraptors? I know any number of them who’d have had Spielbergs arm off for the chance of a part
GrinGrin

Deathgrip · 11/03/2020 17:39

While I agree that this is pushing things too far, I do wonder what some people are advocating for...

Back to the days of Marlon Brando and Mickey Rooney playing Asian characters?

Or further back, and all parts played by men?

After all, the film industry is pretty sure that white men are always the most talented and the biggest draws at the box office (and the fact that they get most of the parts and direct 90% of studio films has nothing to do with it).

Mockerswithnoknockers · 11/03/2020 17:42

The dinosaurs were quite literally murdered by the small mammals who denied their existence after the comet hit.

BINtersectionalFeminism · 11/03/2020 17:43

I don’t know if there’s any Key & Peele fans around:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=lgYfRGDiPDs

Lordfrontpaw · 11/03/2020 17:44

I’m a bit worried by the current fashion for zombie tv shows... wibble... 😥🧟‍♀️🧟🧟‍♂️ Arggggggggh! most of my little icon Smiley people have procreated - and there now a male, female +1 other! Oh my god. They’ve been got at too.

Cheeseandwin5 · 11/03/2020 17:44

@Reginabambina
Apologies if I had stated it incorrectly put I hope my meaning is understood.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 11/03/2020 17:48

there are so few roles for transgender ppl, that having one that is specifically written for them played by someone who then played by someone else would be a slap in the face. Having a mother played by a transgender is not a comparison.

Well thanks to this shitstorm it now seems likely that there'll be even fewer. Who needs to tiptoe around this minefield when they're simply in the business of staging the performing arts?

And that's how the lobbyists - and this actor [a term I use generically to mean both male and female performers] is clearly one - respond to the very 'woke' theatrical world who even redesignate their women's cloakrooms to appease their vocal agenda. Accusations of 'literal violence'.

Honestly. Who would bother?

FrankieManca · 11/03/2020 17:52

Or Eddie Redmayne in The Theory of Everything ..... a History of Art grad playing a cosmologist

And playing a disabled character from half way through the film Shock . I don’t think that Equity allow actors to be rendered neurologically impaired in the interests of purity casting.

Lordfrontpaw · 11/03/2020 17:52

🦹‍♀️🦹🦹‍♂️👩‍⚖️🧑‍⚖️👨‍⚖️👩‍🚒🧑‍🚒👨‍🚒👩‍🔬🧑‍🔬👨‍🔬👩‍🎨🧑‍🎨👨‍🎨👩‍🔧🧑‍🔧👨‍🔧👩‍🏭🧑‍🏭👨‍🏭👩‍🏫🧑‍🏫👨‍🏫

Is this what I think it is? Jesus it took years to get a bloody red haired icon...
👩🏼‍🦰

Lordfrontpaw · 11/03/2020 17:53

I guess you need an iPhone to get the full effect...

Cheeseandwin5 · 11/03/2020 17:53

@donquixtodelamancha

The problem is how many trans roles can you think of.
here are hundred and thousands of characters in films and shows produced this year- how many can you name that are transgender?
How would you feel then if the ones that are available are played by other actors?

Cheeseandwin5 · 11/03/2020 17:55

@isabellerossgnoi

In the same way as a man can be called a father even if he did'nt' father the kids he is with.
The terminology has taken years to change but now we see a father as a man who fits the role and not in a biological sense.

Thisismytimetoshine · 11/03/2020 17:56

Well, we generally call that a stepfather.

thirdfiddle · 11/03/2020 18:00

BBC article seems quite straightforward on this one.

They went to some lengths to look for a transwoman actress for the role but couldn't find one good enough. So they cast a man. What else were they to do? By the sounds of it the character also appears pre transition, and is actually male, so it would be nonsense to cast a woman.

I did initially have some sympathy, because trans actors may find it difficult to get traditional male/female leading roles due to not passing well, so some evening up seems fair enough. But going by the BBC article it sounds like significant efforts were made to find a trans actor and noone good enough appeared. That is entirely fair I think - if you were casting a disabled part and no good enough disabled actors applied, you'd be reasonable to cast an able bodied actor.

And TG campaigners do indeed object because casting a male as a male character is too realistic. Couldn't make it up. Are they trying to say that transwomen who don't take hormones/have surgery are not trans enough to appear on stage even in the role of ... a transwoman who doesn't take hormones or have surgery? What else do they think the difference between a transwoman and a man in a dress is? I thought it was supposed to be purely in your head, in which case who cares, nobody expects an actor to think like the character, they just have to act like them.

FloralBunting · 11/03/2020 18:25

I've only read the BBC article. And this is nonsense.

It's not like saying your should cast a black actor as a black character. That's a visible, obvious thing. It's saying you should cast someone based on their mysterious inner essence identity, which no one in the audience will be able to see and anyway, shouldn't because the actor is playing a part... of a 'transwoman' who is, by definition, a male bodied human.

Do these people really think that others look at a pre-anything male trans person and see anything other than a male? Do they think we all possess Layla Moran style soul goggles?

Mind you, I know nothing, I thought Chris Pine's Scots accent was passable.

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 11/03/2020 18:31

OK it seems I didn't realise the lack of understanding I was dealing with

You lack manners

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