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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Gender-neutral passport rules are 'unlawful', Court of Appeal hears

98 replies

LittleCabbage · 10/03/2020 10:04

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50638629

The government's rules on gender-neutral passports are "unlawful" and breach human rights, a court has heard.

Judges at the Court of Appeal are hearing the case of campaigner Christie Elan-Cane, who wants passports to have an "X" category for those who do not identify as fully male nor female.

The campaigner believes the UK's passport process is "inherently discriminatory".

Lawyers representing the home secretary are contesting the legal challenge.

The case centres on whether the current policy run by the UK passport office - which is part of the Home Office - is lawful.

Currently, all UK passport holders have to specify whether they are male or female.

Christie Elan-Cane believes the policy breaches the right to respect for private life, and the right not to be discriminated against on the basis of gender or sex, under the European Convention on Human Rights.

The campaign for recognition of non-gendered identity in UK law and society started more than 25 years ago.

Last year, a High Court challenge calling for gender-neutral passports was lost but the case has now been taken to the Court of Appeal.

On Tuesday, Christie Elan-Cane's lawyer, Kate Gallafent, told the three judges: "There is little which is more fundamental and deeply personal than an individual's gender identity."

She said those affected by the government's current passport rules "face a choice between the degrading experience of applying for, bearing and using a passport that does not accurately reflect their gender identity, or forgoing the use of a passport at all."

People who do not consider themselves as exclusively male or female include members of the trans community and intersex people.

The UN says up to 1.7% of the world's population are born with intersex traits - about the same number of people with red hair.

Male, female and non-binary

The "X" stands for unspecified for people who do not identify as male or female.

Earlier this year, Canada introduced gender-neutral passports with an X category.

Australia, Denmark, the Netherlands, Germany, Malta, New Zealand, Pakistan, India and Nepal already have a third category.

The International Civil Aviation Organisation - the UN agency in charge of air travel - also recognises the "X" option.

Speaking ahead of Tuesday's legal action, Christie Elan-Cane said: "Legitimate identity is a fundamental human right but non-gendered people are treated as though we have no rights.

"It is unacceptable that someone who defines as neither male nor female is forced to declare an inappropriate gender in order to obtain a passport."

It comes as the government prepares to publish its response to a consultation on reforming the Gender Recognition Act 2004, the piece of law that sets out the legal process by which a person can change their gender.

The government said it had more than 100,000 responses to the consultation, which it called "exceptionally high".

In October, the minister for women and equalities, Liz Truss, said it needed time for consideration and she wanted to study it closely.

During last year's High Court proceedings, Christie Elan-Cane's lawyers challenged the lawfulness of the policy administered by Her Majesty's Passport Office.

James Eadie, acting for the home secretary, said the policy maintains an "administratively coherent system for the recognition of gender" and ensures security at national borders.

Ruling on the case in June, a judge said that although he was not at that time satisfied the policy was unlawful, part of the reasoning for the decision was that a comprehensive review had not been completed.

OP posts:
Thisismytimetoshine · 10/03/2020 13:54

Why would they work that proviso in, Jessica? It sounds ominous, when it hardly needs to be said as the same thing applies to just about everything.

DuLANGDuLANGDuLANG · 10/03/2020 14:06

Over 40 comments on the indie story. At least 35 in agreement with the court decision

Thinkingabout1t · 10/03/2020 14:38

COA have ruled that the Home Office's refusal to issue "X' gender passports is currently lawful but may become unlawful in the future.

That is worrying. An individual's passport may seem irrelevant to the rest of us, but it weakens the principle that it's illegal to make false declarations on an official document.

Every victory the TRAs get emboldens them to push for more. And that is usually a push into women's territory.

Aesopfable · 10/03/2020 15:15

a court has heard

Courts hear all sorts of things, including a lot of people saying ‘I am innocent’ when it turns out they are not.

Imnobody4 · 10/03/2020 16:07

I don't think there's anything sinister, just that it's part of a bigger picture. It's still for the government to decide it's policy.
metro.co.uk/2020/03/10/campaigner-loses-court-challenge-gender-neutral-passports-12375467/
‘The court finds that the ‘X’ marker is just one part of a bigger picture that requires a coherent structured approach across all the areas where the issue of non-binary gender arises, particularly given the discussions as to whether there should be any gender boxes on passports (or indeed other official documents) at all.

Clymene · 10/03/2020 16:44

Dear Christie, you're a woman. Everyone can tell. You can identify however you like but you cant change your biological sex which is what's on your passport

boatyardblues · 10/03/2020 16:58

‘The court finds that the ‘X’ marker is just one part of a bigger picture that requires a coherent structured approach across all the areas where the issue of non-binary gender arises, particularly given the discussions as to whether there should be any gender boxes on passports (or indeed other official documents) at all.

Record biological sex and gender identity separately on official documents. Gender shouldn’t be required for birth certificates as nobody knows & can assume gender identity at that young age, just observe the sex. Documents should have a ‘n/a’ option for gender for people that aren’t fussed, but recording this separately would ensure women aren’t endangered by being put in men’s prisons overseas etc and that travellers get appropriate medical treatment if they’re found unconscious.

Jux · 10/03/2020 17:34

i before e except after c

Do we always change the rule to reflect the exception? Or does the exception 'prove the rule'?

Exceptions are just that and we should stop trying to make the rules fit them. They don't fit them, that's why they're exceptions. That's what exceptions are.

Clymene · 10/03/2020 17:39

I just heard her being interviewed on PM. Justin has to apologise for using the wrong pronouns - she likes per rather than her or him

She came across as a woman who has grown up with a trust fund - too rich to work and too intelligent not to.

DuLANGDuLANGDuLANG · 10/03/2020 17:42

It’s such a strange premise to base such a massive part of your life on.

Like, I don’t ‘feel’ female. I know I am female because I have a female body.

Why is that not enough evidence for certain other people, when it’s plenty for 98% plus of the population worldwide?

terryleather · 10/03/2020 17:53

I will never understand why so called non-binary identities should have any relevance whatsoever to anyone other than those who say they have one, let alone any status in law.

That people expect to be pandered to in this regard is the most mind blowing selfish narcissism.

Gender-neutral passport rules are 'unlawful', Court of Appeal hears
Clymene · 10/03/2020 17:58

Sorry it was Evan, not Justin

DuLANGDuLANGDuLANG · 10/03/2020 18:00

I understand gendered feelings are sincere and I really do believe people should be able to wear whatever is comfortable for them and long as it is safe and occasion appropriate but a two decade long legal battle over a administrative marker does not seem like a path to happiness.

Aesopfable · 10/03/2020 19:48

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51823318

But the Court of Appeal ruled the policy did not amount to an unlawful breach of the activist's human rights.

In a ruling on Tuesday, three senior judges dismissed the appeal, which was contested by the Home Office.

Thisismytimetoshine · 10/03/2020 19:57

What an absolute waste of a life. Pound to a penny winning this battle wouldn’t have been enough for them anyway.

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 10/03/2020 21:20

Imagine he my brought up believing being a man or a woman is based on how you act and things you like, imagine having that re-enforced at school, at work and everywhere else.

Would you believe it when told everyone is male or female based on sex?

It's a situation I've never been in and I don't have the imagination to put myself there.

Maybe I'd also fight it?

fascinated · 10/03/2020 21:40

I’m well up for reducing the occasions on which “gender” is asked about (and tbh the only times it is actually necessary are when it means “sex”), but that is very different from trying to pretend it doesn’t exist at all!

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 11/03/2020 05:45

Gender doesn't exist.
Sex stereotypes exist.

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 11/03/2020 06:51

I'm of the opinion that we should either strictly record biological sex, or remove it from passports entirely.

In fact, I think this is going to be my suggested solution to anything that asks for gender.

Probably the TRAs wouldn't want it removed because then where is the validation?

fascinated · 11/03/2020 07:20

You need to have bio sex due to the rules about searching at airports etc, arrest abroad etc etc.

LolaSmiles · 11/03/2020 07:31

This has me thinking, a biologically female person who presents in a stereotypically masculine way could find themselves in risky situations with an M sex marker on their passport.
Say they got caught up in a demonstration / was falsely accused of a crime / got into trouble overseas, the overseas country would see the M sex marker and put them in a men's jail. That means someone who is physically a woman is then held in a foreign prison with male criminals (and I'm willing to bet the violent male inmates won't be so quick to play along with gender identity).
It's quite concerning. A passport should be a statement of fact that can be understood in all countries.

fascinated · 11/03/2020 07:41

Lola - this is what frustrates me about the whole notion of changing sex. There’s a lopsided risk profile. Women always lose out, even if they are the ones trying to transition. Why can’t people see this?

JellySlice · 11/03/2020 07:47

The definition of a person by their faith or belief has no place on a passport.

Gender-neutral passport rules are 'unlawful', Court of Appeal hears
LolaSmiles · 11/03/2020 08:10

Fascinated
You're right. It's always women who lose out or who are placed at greater risk.

The big wide world outside of developed nations identity politics understand biology just fine.
I'm not convinced women in warzones where rape is used as a weapon can identify out of that group any more than a British transman could identify out of their biology if they found themselves in a men's prison. The root of women's oppression lies with biology.

HarrietThePi · 11/03/2020 09:30

Per is on Nick Ferraris show right now. Per always uses the neutral bathrooms if possible, if it is not an option, per would use the female bathroom - because there is more privacy and per would feel safer.