Transgender brains are more like their desired gender.

[tallyfive]

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180524112351.htm

Just wondering what people think about this? (I know it's a relatively old article, but I just wanted opinions)

Doesn’t change the fact that the oppression of women is rooted in their anatomy and being the sex that reproduces.

The science behind brains/gender is rubbish. It's not possible to identify whether a person is male or female from looking just at their brain (apart from actual size - and that doesn't change in people who are transgender) so therefore if there is no such thing as a brain 'gender' there is also no such thing as a transgender brain that is more like the brain of one or the other gender.

If a brain triggers all the hormones to take you through a male puberty, then it is necessarily and self-evidently, a male brain.

We are more than our brains. So even if the article is accurate - and I've not read it now, but probably did before - so what?

A man with a brain that shows up as female on a scan is still a man. And vice versa.

And I highly doubt that the impact of Male and female puberty on the brains will have had no effect - and prostate-willy-testicle-havers cannot go through female puberty.

What is wrong with being a feminine presenting man or a masculine presenting woman?

There really isn't a lot of difference between male brains and female brains anyway. Small differences in averages and lots of overlap. Certainly nothing that could be used to define categories. There is a difference between male and female bodies. That is what the categories male and female are based on.

I’d be interested to see if the researchers included a control group of gay and lesbian subjects. I expect their brain response to a “pheromone” would perhaps be different to their same sex peer group too.
How did the researchers exclude trans patients who were actually gay and in denial, or raised by homophobic parents?
And how did they control for the presence of environmental bias due to their upbringing?

A brain is an organ, like a kidney, heart or skin. If it's in a female body it's a female brain. If in a male body, it's a male brain. Bodily organs aren't gendered as gender is a social construct, not a physiological term.

I don’t get what they think it proves.

Did they have control groups including for instance girls who have excellent spatial awareness who DONT have gender dysphoria?

Whatever someone's brain is like, it has nothing to do with their reproductive sex. If there was a clear male brain and female brain (which there isn't) then it would merely be a secondary sexual characteristic, like breasts or facial hair. We do not determine someone's sex by whether they have breasts (the medical condition is gynecomastia in men) or can grow a full beard (hirsutism). Sex is about reproductive class.

This is agenda pushing

Note that earlier studies suggest differences between straight and gay people www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2008/06/20/brains-of-gay-people-resemble-those-of-straight-people-of-opposite-sex/

If an FTM child has a brain closely resembling a lesbian child, and said FTM child turns out to be attracted to girls, does that prove that lesbians are actually men?

Unless you want to deny homosexuality and make gay people straight by changing their gender, that seems to be the conclusion.

Just more proof that transgenderism is homophobic.

Indeed. If a man has brain which is closer to that which is more usually typical of a woman that merely means that there are a wide range of male brains.

This study looks incredibly flawed to me. Even if the following were true:

• transgender adolescents have brain patterns similar to the opposite sex

Then there is nothing to show that non-trans adolescents don't have brain patterns similar to the opposite sex. I am female, I have high visual/spatial awareness, I am a computer programmer and studied a STEM subject at university. I think it's highly likely I would be told I have "male brain patterns" but I am not transgender.

What they're picking up on in this study is that plenty of girls have "male pattern brains" and plenty of boys have "female pattern brains". In which case the idea of a gendered brain is nonsense.

The related article listed directly underneath this one says:
"New research comprehensively examined the brain development of young boys and girls. Their research shows no gender difference in brain function"

That study can't be true, mainly because gender is utter bollocks.

Dies my brain look different depending on whether I prefer wearing makeup or a hard hat? Skirts or jeans?

I suspect what is happening is that there are a load of kids whose brains/behaviours don't fit the stereotypical masculine and feminine boxes. Many of those kids now believe this makes them transgender. This study is picking that up.

But instead of concluding

• there are plenty of girls whose brains appear like "boys' brains" therefore the idea that there are stereotypically boys/girls brains is clearly nonsense

They are concluding

• yep their brains are in the wrong body

used magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scans to assess brain activation patterns in response to a pheromone known to produce gender-specific activity.

'gender-specific activity' - so they're saying that there are pheromones which detect gender? They could tell me my gender? I would be very interested to hear how they established the properties of this pheromone. I feel like they actually mean sex here, and still, I'd like to see the responses compared to a selection of non-GD children - without that, how can we see if there is actually a significant difference.

GD adolescent girls showed a male-typical brain activation pattern during a visual/spatial memory exercise.

I normally score well on this sort of exercise (and DP doesn't) - they need to do the same tests on controls and tell us what the variability difference is - ie if 100% of GD girls, 100% of non-GD boys, 0% of GD boys and 0% of non-GD girls tested this way then that would be one thing, but I highly doubt this is the case - to understand what they're saying we need to see the numbers. How consistent and conformant GD/non GD boys and girls are.

I wonder which organisation funded the research. Always worth looking in to.

It's nonsense on stilts.

Apparently, women who are 6 feet 2 are more like a typical male height than they are a typical female height.
This obviously suggests that they are mystically somehow meant to be men.

Or, it suggests that there is immense variation of physical characteristics such as height, weight, muscle strength, brain cortical thickness, and outliers at the edges of a normal curve are not 'the wrong sex', they are examples of their own sex. Because none of those characteristics mentioned are sex characteristics. They are human characteristics.

The utter daftness of contriving that testicles should be ignored as an indicator of sex but 'brain activation' is meaningful.

Even the article is bunkum from the beginning. All of the children have both a sex (obviously they mean biological here) and a gender which either matches or doesn't - but the paper doesn't describe gender, or evidence it, and apparently they compared children of one SEX who thought they were the wrong 'gender' with other kids who were the same 'gender' but I have no idea how they verified or quantified any of those children's 'genders' and whether their sex also came into it.

And what could be concluded? Nothing.

More boys than girls are red green colourblind. If you find a girl who is colourblind it isn't evidence that she's a boy.

Scientists should be able to distinguish between defining sex characteristics (testicles, ovaries) and generalised human traits found in the entire population of male and female people, but with variations between the sexes.
They also need to ascertain the difference between innate and environmentally adaptive traits.

The utter kicker, is that in order to argue that male and female brains exist and are fundamentally different, you have to first argue that male and female bodies exist and that the definition of a sexed brain is dependent upon the sexed body it is a component part of.

The circular reasoning is ridiculous.
Some boys have brain activity similar to some girls? Do they? Other than the girls who have similar brain activity to the other boys, perhaps?
Jack's brain is a bit like Janet's and also like Jane's, but not at all like Mary's or Mia's, because their brains are like Mark's.

What have we learned?

That bad science exists to try to support Impossible circular reasoning, and some people will believe it.

It would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous

That study does not enable the claim in the title to be made.

Its total nonsense.There is no such thing as a gendered brain. (See the likes of Cordelia Fine. Delusions of Gender.)The particular piece of research you refer to has been rubbished over and over again.

A female brain is only a female brain because it is located in a body with female reproductive organs.

But if you can diagnose transsexualism via a brain scan, I’d be all for it.

Will never happen though, because that’s ‘gatekeeping’ and the fetishists want no gatekeeping whatsoever.

If there was an accurate test, such as a brain scan, that could diagnose “transgenderism” then all the problems with the ideology would be solved overnight. Yet such a test remains elusive.

Fortunately the transgender cause is very well funded and they are pouring millions into research to find this test, and thus give gravitas to their claims.

Oh, wait....

This is the kind of pseudoscience that people like my BIL latch onto to ‘prove’ that his daughter is definitely in the wrong body ‘because there is evidence.....’

There is just as much ‘evidence’ out there that climate change is a complete myth should one choose to look for it.

No study has been conclusive. The most that seems to be have been found is that transgender brains resemble transgender brains and that the brains of heterosexual TIMs (AGPs) if they resemble anything resemble, well, male brains, quelle surprise!

This article gives a fairly good summary of where we are

www.genderhq.org/trans-nature-vs-nurture-innate-gender-identity-culture

But yes, it ultimately doesn't matter why...we're still talking biological males invading women's spaces and we can't change sex