'Mother is a social construct'

[Teateaandmoretea]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/04/transgender-man-appeals-decision-not-to-be-named-father?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Discuss

My first reaction is that a mother is a woman who has given birth to a baby (whether or not the baby lives) OR a woman who has adopted a child and brings them up as their own.

That is not social construct to me.

"like I said you may not see the significance of being called a mother on the birth certificate of a child you have with your own wife"
It would be a lie, that's the point. At least until someone figures out how to fuse ova and create a baby, but even then, you would have the woman who gestated, and the woman who 'only' donated an egg to the process.

It’s a really great thing that the law has been updated so that the second parent can just be added to the certificate at the registrar, but the second parent is not the mother. They are still the same as they were back in the bad old days of the lengthy adoption process, a second adult with parental responsibility.

This is the priority, responsibility for the child. The child's right to have its birth recorded accurately.
Not the rights of adults to be identified as they want.

you may not see the significance of being called a mother on the birth certificate of a child you have with your own wife,

It’s not about you, it’s about the child. It’s about all children, internationally.

I know what it’s like to raise a child that is not mine biologically, and to feel a sincere mother-child relationship anyway. I know this because I have birthed 2 and gained a 3rd via marriage.

There are lots of ways to become a mother figure, but each child only came out of one woman.

This is the fuckng problem with all of this shit. The 'oh what about me' overrides any concern for children's needs.

If you want to be a good parent, grow the fuck up.

If a lesbian couple have a baby via “shared motherhood IVF”, one of them will be the birth mother and the other will be the genetic mother. I’d argue that a genetic mother who brings up her child isn’t just an egg donor and it makes sense to include her on the birth certificate, although I’m not sure what she should be called.

I do think that the judge’s decision in the Freddy McConnell case was the right one, though. Freddy can call himself whatever he likes, but changing the legal definitions of “mother” and “father” could have ramifications for everyone.

FFS. Is it also a social construct for every other species? I'm tired of talking about Freddie. I feel like we have had exactly the same conversation at every stage of the journey. Just hope this appeal also fails.

Ah I finally saw what Elsie was getting at, that men can be registered as father with no biological connection, but women even if the mum is a surrogate and their wife can't.
Is that a case then when you both legally adopt the child, even though your wife has given birth to a baby created by your ova?
In Switzerland unmarried fathers have to legally adopt their babies.
It's not right though to have people who don't know where they come from.
Does the man want to be a single dad and raise their child unaware of who gave birth? What if that child buys it and spends their whole life wondering about or hating the woman who should have protected them from this sort of shit.

I’d argue that a genetic mother who brings up her child isn’t just an egg donor and it makes sense to include her on the birth certificate, although I’m not sure what she should be called.

That would open a can of worms regarding egg donors legal rights though. Why should some donors be recorded and not others? If female egg donors are recorded, should sperm donors also be recorded? It’s very hard to draw a line that will stand up against a challenge. This has potential ramifications for privacy too - birth certificates are used as ID, so three or more boxes would divulge private medical information to people who don’t need to see it.

Right now, she’d be parent 2 with legal responsibility, so already has the same legal rights as every other parent with parental responsibility. The biological origin will be a lovely story for the child and an unchangeable medical/genetic fact.

Who knew pushing a baby out of your vagina was just a social construct?

Except you don’t need to have done that to be a mother.

Except you don’t need to have done that to be a mother.

You only read the first page of the thread, didn’t you?

That would open a can of worms regarding egg donors legal rights though.

I'm wondering if this would not be a good thing though, and similarly for sperm donors. We have gone down a bit of a rabbit hole with these things because it's been done in a piecemeal way, often to catch up with technology or sometimes new social practices, rather than with a clear vision of the purpose of recording this stuff at all.

As far as the father being recorded as such even with a sperm donor, that's really a quirk, isn't it, rather than something intentional? Husbands are always assumed to be the father unless someone says otherwise, because are you going to genetically test every infant? It just makes sense to assume that unless the mother says it was the milkman, or the father does, in which case these days there might be genetic testing.

Because of that very practical practice, even if there is a sperm donor the father's name goes on the certificate. But that's not the purpose of that way of doing things.

Actually, if you are married and the baby’s dad isn’t your husband your husband’s name goes down anyway.

It’s called ‘presumption of legitimacy’

biotech.law.lsu.edu/Books/lbb/x650.htm

In other news, Freddy has quit the Guardian and is throwing Freddyself headlong into changing the laws around registering births. Basically, Freddy and Freddy mates want birth certificates to say whatever they fancy.

Freddy is now sponsored by Dove Baby.

Freddy is setting up a non profit to help other parents who want to pretend their baby came out of a different person!
What next, will the stork made a comeback?

A friendly acquaintance of mine who has herself birthed 4 children, shared a list on her fb this week of phrases we should not use for fear of offending trans people’s feelings, “expectant mother” being one of those hurtful phrases. It is suggested we now say “pregnant people”.

Fuck this and also, handmaidens, take a long hard look at what you are giving up (& what you are handing over on my behalf). I am a mum, I was not a “pregnant person”, I was an expectant mother. I will not surrender the word mother. If it can be used by Morgane Oger, then it can also be used by the natal women who birth the children. Pregnant person indeed.

The Trans Pregnancy Project

This sums up exactly what the baby is to this person especially if a comment on another thread on Freddie is true. According to the poster, Freddie doesn’t intend to raise the child, who is with his parents.

Elsiebear
I get where you’re coming from. Your situation as you know is more of an anomalie. Legally as you know, the person, who gives birth has de facto parental rights over a child. When a man has sex with a woman and the sperm leaves his body, it is no longer his to do with as he chooses. The same is true with egg implantation in surrogacy.

It could be argued that a comments line be added. This could perhaps be useful for a child, such as “sperm donation from x clinic” and “generic mother x”. But then there would be much anguish for a woman giving birth as result of rape as she would know the child could ask questions as to why the comments are blank. My guess is more children are borne through rape than surrogacy. There are no easy answers.

Freddy is now sponsored by Dove Baby.

WTF

Gender is a social construct. 'Motherhood' - albeit that word might have a whole plethora of emotive cultural significance attached to it - is not.

I'm unsurprised gender creates such angst, given it's founded on such a nebulous basis. I'm not of the ilk that suggests doesn't doesn't exist - the fact that it's constructed makes it no less insidious - but even the 'queer' theorists claim that social definitions of gender shift, change and are historically, culturally and geographically specific.

Must be quite challenging to build your entire identity upon shifting sands like these.

Mothers, on the other hand, seem quite secure in their knowledge of what the various definitions of that word mean, and what its roles entail.