'Mother is a social construct'

[Teateaandmoretea]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/04/transgender-man-appeals-decision-not-to-be-named-father?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Discuss

My first reaction is that a mother is a woman who has given birth to a baby (whether or not the baby lives) OR a woman who has adopted a child and brings them up as their own.

That is not social construct to me.

Under British law the mother is the person who gestates and gives birth to the child, even if the child does not carry her genetic material. So the legal definition is based on biology.
The word Mother can have a social context as well, of course, but it's not relevant in this situation, and doesn't mean there's any need to change the law. Many words have more than one meaning, people just learn to use them in the proper context.

Why do you think having a specific title that denotes a woman who gave birth is a ‘reduction’ Elsie?

I think of it as an honour, not a reduction.

It’s called a birth certificate

Because a mother is not just someone who gave birth, there is much more to mothering than giving birth. My issue is mother in regards to a birth certificate referring to whoever gave birth, however, father can be the biological father, partner of the mother, friend of the mother etc. Why do men have the legal right to be known as father of a child they may have no biological relationship to and women aren’t?

The primary purposes of a birth certificate are:

1. State acknowledgement of a child, required for gaining citizenship.
2. A method of tracking child and maternal health.
3. Prevention of sale and abduction of children
4. Prevention of child marriages by recognising mothers.

@borntobequiet yes.

But words have social and cultural meaning.

@Iggly so why name the father?

@Elsiebear90 you like every other poster knows it stems from when women were the property of the man the woman was married to.

Why do men have the legal right to be known as father of a child they may have no biological relationship to and women aren’t?

Because birth certificates have existed since before paternity could be proved.

Campaign for all fathers to have DNA tests at the registrar If you want to see change.

women were the property of the man the woman was married to.

Then why can non married fathers be recorded?

To clarify I mean to put it simply, why can men be the legal father of a child they have no biological relationship to and women can’t be the mother of a child they have no biological relationship to? Why can father mean male parent or male biological parent and mother can only mean woman who gave birth? I see people keep putting “because it’s a birth certificate” if a birth certificate is only concerned about birth, why even name the father then?

@ColaFreezePop I agree, all the more reason for it to be changed then.

@DuLANGMondeFOREVER only with their permission though.

Hey, I’m cool with kicking the dads off. No biggie, I’m not here to defend the rights of men.

I’m not cool with changing the recording of the fact of the human a child came out of.

Elsiebear it is a certificate of a person's birth.

It records the date, place, sex, mother & given name of every child born.
These are key details unique to every person.
Every person of course having being birthed by a woman, its mother.

The majority of birth certificates record the father but not all. For various reasons, the name of the father may not be the man whose genetic material contributed to the fetus before birth.

The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child acknowledges that every child should “be registered immediately after birth”

In England this practice of requiring every birth to be registered originated with the 1836 Act for the Registering of Births, Deaths, and Marriages.

Only with their attendance at the registrar actually.

The biological father does not have to be recorded because it revictimises victims of sexual violence and leaves their children stateless.

The birth mother must be recorded because to not do so is a barrier to maternal health and the prevention of child marriages.

Episiotomies are no social construct, as I can personally attest. Twice.

Scissors applied to one's genital area to release a big headed baby.... Meh, one simply identifies into that.

Midwife sewing up my fanjo to 'make sure there are two holes'......? Hey, I was more worried about reapplying my lippy.

@DuLANGMondeFOREVER exactly, so men are afforded the luxury of not being recorded as the father of their own child and the legal responsibilities of that if they so wish to be and women aren’t, even in cases of surrogacy.

Mate, if you don’t want to be called a mother don’t push a baby out of your vagina.

The reason the father bit is optional is presumably because lots of the fuckers ran off between conception and registration? Or died.

Where the mother is undoubtedly always in the same geographical location as the newborn baby.

Also, should have been clearer sorry, but I’m not using this to argue for men’s rights I’m using this situation to argue for greater women’s rights. This is a situation close to my heart as it personally affects me.

You’re not arguing for greater women’s rights Elsie.

@AnneTwackie - you are aware some women have C-sections?

@Elsiebear90
Whilst I can see the reasoning behind your POV, I also believe a child cannot have two mothers in the biological sense. A birth certificate should state who gave birth, regardless as to who raises the child. Perhaps a way forward would be a birth certificate with the birth mother named, plus details of who provided the sperm, whether it be ‘donor -unknown’, ‘father -unknown’ ‘father - unconfirmed / confirmed’ (via DNA testing). There could be an appendix where a child is adopted to include the adoptee details. I also believe where a same sex couple are parents, both parents should have equal legal status. I’ve heard of too many cases with female same sex parents, where one is the birth mother, splitting up and the non birth mother has to fight to have contact with the child.
It’s certainly time the whole birth certificate set up was overhauled.
But I’d never agree that a person born male that identifies as female should be allowed to be registered as ‘mother’. Or indeed vice versa.