Freddy McConnell appeal today (Transman who wants to be registered as their child's father) *Title edited by MNHQ*

[MrsSnippyPants]

Haven't seen anything about this and it just popped up on Sky News. Hearing continues tomorrow

Newspaper report here
www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/transgender-man-who-gave-birth-21629478

So living as a woman means always using female pronouns; using a female name on official documents such as a driving licence or passport, or on utility bills or bank accounts; describing themselves and being described by others in written or other communication using female language.

I suppose it would have to be. All just words, nothing real. It shows there is no way someone can live as the other sex because the sexes don’t live differently.

I think it's part of a much more active hate driven attempt to dehumanise us and divide us. ... If we are all separated into different tiny sub groups it's harder to organise around or even articulate our rights.

This.

God only knows Merry. She obviously had only given 2 seconds thoughts to it. There was a hilarious moment mid argument though were I said that I was worried about my sporty sister getting crushed by a trans girl in her hockey match and she said "but she might play against a little wisp of a trans girl, how is that worse than her playing against a butch cis girl? Maybe the solution is to start dividing sport according to body type". I almost screamed at her "we already DO separate sport by body type - men go that way, women go another!" The lack of critical thought is so infuriating. But she's the kind of woman who will chime in with NAMALT and WDIT the second there's a wiff of a suggestion of men behaving badly. She seemed genuinely shocked when I told her most violent and sexual crime was caused by men, said she thought it was 50:50. She has an awful MRA for a boyfriend who is convinced we need "consent contracts" to protect men from the epidemic of women lying about being raped. The 2 of them are as bad as each other.

‘Living as a woman’ - for me that’s periods, being overlooked at work, becoming invisible post 40, being a mum/giving birth, smear tests and mammograms... definitely not wearing certain clothes or even getting my hair/nails done or getting waxed. Or wearing makeup.

Funny how it’s describes as using female pronouns, when the world seems to be trying to get us to use whatever pronouns we fancy, thereby making it meaningless really.

"She seemed genuinely shocked when I told her most violent and sexual crime was caused by men, said she thought it was 50:50."

Terrifying if she is right! With only 5% of prisoners being female (and a lower proportion of them in prison for violent and sexual crimes), there must be a lot of very dangerous women roaming the streets!!! I wonder why we never hear about them?

They disguise themselves as men to make men look bad.

‘Living as a woman’ - for me that’s periods, being overlooked at work, becoming invisible post 40, being a mum/giving birth, smear tests and mammograms... definitely not wearing certain clothes or even getting my hair/nails done or getting waxed. Or wearing makeup.

You mean lived experience over styling? Isn't it funny how that counts for all the other identities counted by intersectionality, but not "woman."

“always using female pronouns; using a female name on official documents such as a driving licence or passport, or on utility bills or bank accounts; describing themselves and being described by others in written or other communication using female language.”

Wow. And that's all it takes to be considered to be 'living as a woman'. And that guidance was issued by a supposedly 'reputable' organisation? Truly depressing

It's a bit like taking the piss.

singasonga if it was anything other than sacred gender ideology, of course it would be seen as appropriation wouldn’t it?

Has consideration ever been made of Freddie ever detransitioning in this case? Just think of the legal clusterfuck that would cause if Freddy had won, not to mention the emotional toll on the child

I have this horrible feeling - can't really quite put my finger on why - that the emotional toll on the child is the very very least of Freddie's concerns.

As for "birthing trans man"? Well, in pure biological terms, that would be "mother". Why use three words when one universally recognised one will do?

"“always using female pronouns; using a female name on official documents such as a driving licence or passport, or on utility bills or bank accounts; describing themselves and being described by others in written or other communication using female language.”

That is the official guidelines by the Government for someone applying for a Gender Recognition Certificate.

definitely not wearing certain clothes or even getting my hair/nails done or getting waxed. Or wearing makeup

By that definition I stopped being a woman on 23rd March. I've been in gym clothes ever since and my hair/nails have not been touched, nor have I worn any makeup.

More importantly though in the context of this agenda, I've not been seen by anyone being a woman. It strikes me that according to this ideology you can only be a woman if someone sees you being a woman. Otherwise you are not anything. And since we've all been in lockdown no one has seen me, therefore I do not exist as a woman.

Even so, we roll out of bed every morning, unshowered, hair unbrushed, no make up, and despite all that, we are still easily recognisable as women...

If it's based on clothes - I'm a 15-year-old boy as I'm wearing one of DSs old school sweatshirts.

If I sit alone wearing male attire in the Amazon rainforest and no one is there to see me, do I exist or will there be a flood in Cairo?

Even so, we roll out of bed every morning, unshowered, hair unbrushed, no make up, and despite all that, we are still easily recognisable as women...

I regularly wear oversized mens t-shirts, trackie dacks and fleeces plus my husband's socks at home. Can't remember the last time I wore make-up. Clip my nails with my husband's nail clippers, never had my nails done as an adult and thanks to Lumea don't even have to shave. Even after brushing, my hair sits lightly in loose ringlets (or as my friends tell me over Zoom - dreadlocks!! ).

Obviously, I am just the epitome of femininity!! I am very glad that I have already fulfilled the 'living as a woman' prerequisites, otherwise I would be amazed that I have the confidence to think that I am womaning right.... or that I am I just delusional?

This is precisely why a few anime avatar-types like to bang on about how they are better at womaning than "cis" women, Winesalot. They literally mean they spend more time on "feminine" grooming.

And to be fair, with all that time that they obviously have, that I as a mum working freelance don't, they probably do spend much more time on it (look at D Thomas and the amount of money and time spent there!).....

And as has been said so many times before... they can also use that male privilege to good use to afford professional beauty services and high street clothes to boot.

‘Living as a woman’ - for me that’s periods, being overlooked at work, becoming invisible post 40, being a mum/giving birth, smear tests and mammograms... definitely not wearing certain clothes or even getting my hair/nails done or getting waxed. Or wearing makeup.

Add to that: as a young woman being seen and judged by men only for your sexiness, disregarded if you don't come up to scratch (I didn't). I actually loathe the word "sexy", which has been co-opted as a stand-in for Beautiful. A woman can be beautiful without being sexy. But in our culture, it's sexy that counts.

I don't live as a woman, if outward appearance is the criteria. I am indifferent to fashion, never in my life did I wear high heels, and had my nails done precisely once, for my daughter's wedding, as i just cut them rather unevenly with a clipper. I wear comfortable clothes and no make-up. Yet still: never been mistaken for a man.

I have this horrible feeling - can't really quite put my finger on why - that the emotional toll on the child is the very very least of Freddie's concerns.

Any new mother who is so obsessed with the wording about them on the birth certificate has dubious priorities, in my opinion. Not sure I even saw the birth certificates for months after. It’s a bit of paper that’ll be important when registering the child for things in future, but the whole scenario suggests Freddy was way more focused on Freddyself than the baby.

The whole argument put up by Freddie is specious as nobody ever insists on seeing the "long form" birth certificate.

www.gov.uk/register-birth/birth-certificates

There are 2 types of birth certificate:

• the short version, which contains only the baby’s details
• the full version, which also contains the parents’ details

"Purpose of the 'Short' birth certificate"

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/purpose_of_the_short_birth_certi

16 Oct 2016

Dear General Register Office,

Please can you clarify the purpose of the short birth certificate?

I have read the policies of various public and private institutions (including the passport office, banks, all employers) regarding proof of identity, and almost all list the 'full' certificate as required, and that the 'short' certificate is not sufficient for this purpose.

Would it be more efficient to abolish the 'short' certificate and issue a 'full' certificate free at or shortly after registration?

Please can you also provide the justification for not providing a 'full' birth certificate free at birth when it is (by the Government's own policies) a required document for modern life in the UK.

Yours faithfully,

Mr D Hague

24 Oct 2016

Dear Mr Hague

Thank you for your enquiry of 16 October concerning short birth certificates. We have treated your request as "official correspondence" rather than under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act, but that has made no difference to the content of our reply.

You asked the following questions, to which I've added our response:

Q. Please can you clarify the purpose of a short birth certificate?

A. The basic purpose of the short birth certificate is to provide evidence that a birth has occurred and has been registered. The certificate does this by means of a document that records only the child's registered name, date of birth, sex, and place of birth (registration district and sub-district), which has the same format for every birth and thus provides a document that is consistent for all births.

Q. Would it be more efficient to abolish the 'short' certificate and issue a 'full' certificate free at or shortly after registration?

A. There is a clear demand for short birth certificates by the general public. There are occasions when a short birth certificate is acceptable to an individual or organisation , eg sporting activities, when a full birth certificate may be viewed as overly disclosive (since the full birth certificate records all the details recorded in the register entry including those of parentage, although in some register entries only the mother's details may have been recorded). Short birth certificates may assist, together with other documents, in determining eligibility for certain benefits and services. It is a matter for individual government departments, agencies and other organisations to decide whether to accept short birth certificates in preference to full birth certificates. The fee for full birth certificates issued at the time of registration currently amounts to just under £3m, which is paid to local authorities and contributes towards the provision of the local registration service by each local authority. That fee would not necessarily be offset by making the short birth certificate fee payable, and the revenue lost to local authorities would need to be recouped by other means.

Q. Please can you also provide the justification for not providing a 'full' birth certificate free at birth when it is (by the Government's own policies) a required document for modern life in the UK.

A. The current legislation does not provide for a full birth certificate to be issued free of charge and would need to be amended to do so.

I hope this is useful.

Yours sincerely

John Cunningham
Policy Advisor
Civil Registration

Her Majesty’s Passport Office, General Register Office
Room 01, Smedley Hydro, Trafalgar Road, Southport PR8 2HH
T: +44 (0)151 471 4590 Text Relay Prefix 18001

The whole argument put up by Freddie is specious as nobody ever insists on seeing the "long form" birth certificate.

I needed the long form for school registration, and opening a bank account...

I never knew there were 2 versions!

The long form version is the one that is required to access the child's rights as a resident of the UK (healthcare, education).

Even with a long form birth certificate, Freddie's sex would be obvious.

But by insisting that the word 'mother' means anything more than 'person who gave birth', Freddie is adding information to the birth certificate that isn't there.