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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Freddy McConnell appeal today (Transman who wants to be registered as their child's father) *Title edited by MNHQ*

523 replies

MrsSnippyPants · 04/03/2020 14:32

Haven't seen anything about this and it just popped up on Sky News. Hearing continues tomorrow

Newspaper report here
www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/transgender-man-who-gave-birth-21629478

OP posts:
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DandelionsAndDaisies1 · 29/04/2020 14:31

Being pregnant and giving birth is not “living is a man”. Nor is the process of making a baby. I think cases like these are very useful in showing how ridiculous and sexist gender ideology is.

R0wantrees · 29/04/2020 14:33

Represented by Laytons and that Andrew Spearman. He's on the surrogacy ethics board.

There is an overlap of intentions to untether the mother's unique status & responsibility to Safeguard her new born child

DandelionsAndDaisies1 · 29/04/2020 14:37

There is an overlap of intentions to untether the mother's unique status & responsibility to Safeguard her new born child

And it wouldn’t be the first overlap between TRAs and MRAs.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/04/2020 14:41

Are they perhaps referring to any surgery Freddy has had - ie misunderstanding what "transition" means thinking it is the surgery?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/04/2020 14:42

I don't know whether Freddy has had any surgery, to be clear.

R0wantrees · 29/04/2020 14:51

I hope Freddie can concentrate ok their baby now and not appeal.

It seems Freddie McConnell is determined to continue attempts to remove the status of mother from legislation.

Freddy McConnell appeal today (Transman who wants to be registered as their child's father) *Title edited by MNHQ*
jhuizinga · 29/04/2020 15:02

Erishkigal - the facts laid out in the judgement state that FMcC began to take testosterone in 2013 and had a double mastectomy the following year. A correct version of the sequence of events from GRC to birth of baby does highlight what a bad piece of law the GRA is so I'm not surprised the BBC didn't give it.

GeordieTerf · 29/04/2020 15:16

Isn't it amazing how many of Freddie's sentences include the words "I", "me", and "we"...

it's clear who this court case is about, and it isn't the poor baby.

As always, the pronouns tell the real story.

DandelionsAndDaisies1 · 29/04/2020 15:22

Has anyone told Freddie men’s jeans don’t change your genes? Genuinely, do they understand that?

flyingbuttress43 · 29/04/2020 15:22

What with Liz Truss indicated she wants to preserve single sex spaces and now this, are we heading for an outbreak of common sense?

viques · 29/04/2020 15:29

Thank heavens for a sensible, logical and biologically respectful outcome.

It is making me rethink my proposed legal action to have gravity abolished on the grounds that I think I can fly if courts are going to start making responsible judgements based on fact not desire.

viques · 29/04/2020 15:33

erish he has had what I believe is coyly referred to as "top" surgery.

Since he praised his consultant for using "correct" anatomical terms, you know, the way doctors do, I am assuming he has a vagina , not an invisible penis.

DandelionsAndDaisies1 · 29/04/2020 15:43

It is making me rethink my proposed legal action to have gravity abolished on the grounds that I think I can fly if courts are going to start making responsible judgements based on fact not desire.

I’d really love to see a case for race dysphoria in the courts, having the place of birth and nationality changed on your certificate. Gaining a birth right to citizenship in a country you were not born in. Getting outraged if someone refers to you as white, so triggering, clearly black/Asian/what have you. Or vice-a-versa. We must push for breakthroughs in race reassignment surgery. Afro drugs. Hair straightening drugs. It isn’t really any different to gender dysphoria is it? Why take gender dysphoria seriously but not race dysphoria?

ThinEndoftheWedge · 29/04/2020 15:52

Trans parents will get legal recognition says Freddie.

Sadly Freddie hasn’t noticed that being a ‘Mother’ IS legal recognition.

Agreed with other posters - how is Freddie living as a man??!!

Al1Langdownthecleghole · 29/04/2020 15:55

Represented by Laytons and that Andrew Spearman. He's on the surrogacy ethics board.

There is an overlap of intentions to untether the mother's unique status & responsibility to Safeguard her new born child

And that really concerns me. I can only imagine what MRAs would do should that ever happen.

GeordieTerf · 29/04/2020 16:10

The Guardian article is embarrassing.

"Living as a man" ffs

Sheerahah · 29/04/2020 16:25

I know this is not directly related but I’m putting it on this thread because I don’t want to start a new thread about this couple. Most of you will be familiar with Mermaid patrons Jake Graf (trans man) and wife Hannah (trans woman). They have just had a gorgeous baby daughter via a surrogate. The embryo was created from Jake’s own egg (they came off testosterone for 6 months and had eggs harvested and then fertilised via an anonymous sperm donor) Their surrogate lived in Ireland (or N. Ireland they have been vague about this as is their right) and they had to ‘do a bolt’ to Ireland via ferry just before lock down was more rigidly enforced. The baby was born via emergency c-section after induction on its due date, handed over within hours in in the hospital with some expressed milk/colostrum and they somehow managed to fly back with the baby just the other day during lockdown because they wanted to get back to London where they lived.

I’m wondering who will be put down as mother on their certificate? Will it be the surrogate? It is a complicated issue isn’t it as Jake is a mother as Jake supplied the egg and the child is genetically theirs but they will want to be viewed as the father.

I hope that they will be happy with the term parent. It seems the best solution and they are going to be totally open with child as one would hope adoptive parents would be. Sorry for the slight derail but it is related to the definition of mother when related to trans parenting IYSWIM?

WrathofFaeKIopp · 29/04/2020 16:32

There is an overlap of intentions to untether the mother's unique status & responsibility to Safeguard her new born child

This^ is chilling.

I am starting to see those 'intentions' everywhere, all appearing as progressive and equal.
When a baby cries, the female innately hears that cry, the male has to learn how.

The mansplaining tendency of males must not be allowed to dominate the instinctive behaviour of females.

Freddie of course is the mother.

R0wantrees · 29/04/2020 16:38

I’m wondering who will be put down as mother on their certificate? Will it be the surrogate? It is a complicated issue isn’t it as Jake is a mother as Jake supplied the egg and the child is genetically theirs but they will want to be viewed as the father.

Presumably this will depend on Irish surogacy laws?

R0wantrees · 29/04/2020 16:42

I know this is not directly related but I’m putting it on this thread because I don’t want to start a new thread about this couple. Most of you will be familiar with Mermaid patrons Jake Graf (trans man) and wife Hannah (trans woman). They have just had a gorgeous baby daughter via a surrogate

I think it is related.

From todays ruling:

"There is no need for any registration document for that purpose. The fact of giving birth to a child has that effect as a matter of operation of law. It can readily be understood why this could be important in practice. From the moment of birth someone must have parental responsibility for a newly born child, for example, to authorise medical treatment and more generally to become responsible for its care.

Furthermore, as Mr Jaffey submitted, it cannot simply be a question of this Court substituting a word such as “parent” for the word “mother”. This is because the word “parent” has a distinct meaning which has been given to it by Parliament in other legislation. This has been the product of considered legislative change over several
decades, in various statutes, including the HFEA 1990 and the HFEA 2008. The legal position under the HFEA 2008 was succinctly summarised by Helen Mountfield QC
(sitting as a deputy High Court judge) in R (K) v Secretary of State for the Home Department [2018] EWHC 1834 (Admin); [2018] 1 WLR 6000, at para. 51:

“… under the 2008 Act, at birth a child always has one mother, who is the woman who bore her; may also have a female or male co-parent; may never have more than one male parent; and may not have more than two parents by birth.” (continues)

WrathofFaeKIopp · 29/04/2020 16:46

These trans men, (who are biologically women) are handing over the intrinsic rights of mothers to men,
and handing over the intrinsic rights of newborn babies to men.

Those rights are not theirs to give away

ChattyLion · 29/04/2020 16:48

Supplying an egg isn’t taken into account for legal motherhood, only giving birth is, in Ireland as in UK

This was interesting: just from some news coverage but apparently in Ireland, legal motherhood takes very much longer to be transferred away from the surrogate than is the case in the UK:

How long does it take the intended mother to gain legal status as parent?

‘The intended or ‘commissioning’ mother cannot establish a legal relationship with the child until she has shared the day-to-day care of the child with the father for a period of two years.‘

www.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/surrogacy-in-ireland-there-is-no-legislation-its-a-grey-area-38354856.html

R0wantrees · 29/04/2020 16:53

from article above (July 2019)
"Surrogacy remains a bit of a legal grey area in Ireland, says Annette Hickey of Poe Kiely Hogan Lanigan Solicitors - a legal firm specialising in surrogacy and fertility laws.

“There is no legislation. Surrogacy is neither legally prohibited nor permitted here,” Ms Hickey said. This can lead to legal complications down the line, she explained." (continues)

Saladseeds · 29/04/2020 16:54

Staggering self-indulgence. Thank God for common sense.

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