Protecting naturism

[lafemme]

Radio 4 piece on at the moment - director of British naturism is campaigning that naturism should be a protected characteristic: shouting at a naturist to put their clothes back on should be a hate crime. Its a philosophical ideology and as religion, should be protected....

He gave the example - if a family is in a park playing football and someone shouts 'stop f*cking playing football' that i would be a crime and therefore shouting at a naturist to put clothes back on should also be a crime. A hate crime.

It was a bit of a fuzzy debate as it didn't discuss where the naturism would take place and whether or not this was in the 'public sphere' or not.

What about my philosophical belief that I would like to be able to enjoy a walk through the park without being exposed to an unwanted penis and be able to shout 'put it away'

I think people have got carried away with the concept of “hate crimes”

Seriously. How can anyone say with a straight face that they ought to be able to get their dick out in public without being told to put it away?

A naturist bloke would say that he’s no threat and just wants to enjoy the sun on his knob or whatever. But legalising naturism in public opens the door to every flasher, exhibitionist and pervert to follow suit.
Does that scenario ring any bells? “I’m no threat, I just want to pee in the women’s loo...” Self ID, anyone?

Shouting at a family playing football in the park might be a breach of the peace but is not a hate crime. If you spoke to the family in a reasonable tone and asked them to stop playing football then there would be no crime. If the family were playing football all over the flower beds then they would be committing a crime.

What a stupid Comparison

Under UK Law, being naked in a public place is not an offence in itself. The law requires that the victim must have suffered alarm or distress resulting from the person's behaviour.

No idea what the nudey bloke is on about, but he seems to be turning the tables suggesting the nudey is being caused alarm and distress by the complainant shouting at them to put it away.

Sexuality is a protected characteristic but we're not allowed to actually practice sex with the partner of our choice in public because of public decency laws. Isn't that a more relevant analogy?

Under UK Law, being naked in a public place is not an offence in itself.

Then why was the Naked Rambler pursued and imprisoned repeatedly over the years? A man who at the least was a harmless eccentric and more likely has mental illness and hardly deserved this treatment?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Gough

Time to refer to this thread I think

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3587786-Naked-Yoga-and-Cuddle-Parties-Lap-Dancing-Clubs-for-the-Woke?pg=1

I prefer to be naked. I think the way that our society views nudity is wrong, I think it’s perverse and mentally damaging. That doesn’t mean that I think I have the right to impose my belief of preferences on others. If any philosophy can be a protected characteristic then what prevents incel or isis members from arguing that they should be allowed to practice crimes under the protection of anti discrimination laws?

Things like this should be a wake up call. We shouldn’t be protecting beliefs. Everyone has a right to a belief, but not without scrutiny or argument should they choose to publicly practice said belief.

There are still naturalist beaches in the country but the ones I know of are only used by gay men as cruising grounds. I live near to one and in the summer small pop-up tents are scattered in the sand dunes and naked chaps pop up and down like meerkats.

Everyone I know, male and female, find it very intimating and avoid the area when the men are about. It's not a good advert for 'gay culture'

That doesn’t mean that I think I have the right to impose my belief of preferences on others.

That's the key. No one is stopping people being naked in private. Insisting on being naked in public suggests that the motivation is to be seen by others regardless of their beliefs.

When I was at school we had a teacher who was a naturist. The only reason I know this is that I was friends with her daughter and stayed at their house, she didn't stoll around the school grounds naked shouting about her rights because she wasn't a giant flaming arsehole.

(And also because Scotland is cold.)

I’m unclear about the law on this. I thought it was illegal to be naked in public. If it’s not, it should be!

I’m unclear about the law on this. I thought it was illegal to be naked in public. If it’s not, it should be!

www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/nudity-public-guidance-handling-cases-naturism

(When they say 'handling cases of naturism, I don't think they actually mean...)

Down here, we have Nudey police on Studland Beach, that is fully clothes National Trust rangers on quad-bikes who patrol the nudey beach. There are two main problems; gay men in tents in the dunes, and lads who try to chat up naked women.

And Mockers First Law of Nudity generally applies: The people you least want to see with thier clothes off are the ones you are most likely to see, and vicey versey.

It's like Murphy's Law, but for saggy balls.

This makes a mockery of hate crime as a concept which I'm now happy about. But it's also making a mockery of human rights and the concept of individual freedom. The the balance of freedom to and freedom from.

Now I've discovered they other me with the term 'textiles' they can take a running jump.

From the Daily Mail
'Upcoming events organised by British Naturism, which was founded in 1964, include naked yoga, swimming, ten-pin bowling, cycling, gin tasting, waterpark trips, a 'Call My Buff' pub quiz night and llama walking. Some naturists use their own terminology - including 'textiles' for non-nudists, and 'cotton-tails', which refers to recent converts to nudism who still have white, untanned bottoms.

They have set up a task force, headed by Colin Langham-Fitt, a former acting Chief Constable of Suffolk Police and an outspoken defender of civil liberties, but no nudist, to lobby a Law Commission consultation on hate crime this summer. Current protected characteristics are disability, race, religion, sexual orientation or transgender identity.

At the moment, guidance from the Crown Prosecution Service says 'a balance needs to be struck between the naturist's right to freedom of expression and the right of the wider public to be protected from harassment, alarm and distress'.

It says it would not normally bring a prosecution for outraging public decency in the absence of a sexual context or evidence of actual distress caused.'

Now please note in the case of the willy-waver, there has to be actual evidence of distress for the police to act, which is a novel concept.

On what planet is shouting at someone to stop playing football is a hate crime? This whole hate crime malarkey has lost the bloody run of itself, it’s being deliberately misused to subvert the original meaning.

How can you evidence distress, Mockers? Does someone has to testify you had to be brought round with smelling salts??

How far does this go? If I have a hangover and I shout at kids outside to be quiet, am I committing a hate crime against them? Are they committing one against me, by making my headache worse?

The crows are bloody noisy sometimes, is it possible for a bird to have a hate incident recorded against them?

Under UK Law, being naked in a public place is not an offence in itself.

UK law ? I believe England & Wales have a different take to Scotland on this. Which is why the referenced Naked Rambler spend such a long time in Scottish prisons.

How can you evidence distress, Mockers? Does someone has to testify you had to be brought round with smelling salts??

Or a witness testified they observed your attack of the vapours and had to loosen your corsets.

In the case of Stephen Gough, I think he was bound over and kept on breaking his bail.

Actually, the Protected characteristics are:

age
disability
gender reassignment
marriage and civil partnership
pregnancy and maternity
race
religion or belief
sex
sexual orientation

Even though quite a few woke organisations are doing their best to replace sex with gender, which will mean women losing their rights to protection due to their sex.

Re nudity and the offence of being distressed.
I’m sure in the early / mid nineties, there was an (art?) student arrested for walking around in a ‘nude’ onesie - fabric genitalia etc...

Can’t blame the naturists for trying though - I mean, it feelz like everyone’s literally on the receiving end of hate* these days.

• apart from natal women (that is). ** new OED meaning needed. Something along the lines of, “disagreeing with the holder of opinion”. “Hurt feelingz”.

Do we have a clear definition of gender reassignment? It’s such a vague term.