OK the whole drag story time thing

[Qcng]

I've seen posts on this board before basically completely denouncing drag story time, but I've never really gone along with the perspective that it's such an oh so terrible thing. So I don't join in on those threads. As GC as anyone I actually think, dressing up is fine for girls and boys, these people aren't trying to send a message to children that it's big hair and fake lashes that actually make you a woman, (unlike say, someone like Caitlyn Jenner would send that message). They're sending a message that boys can do dress up too, that being gay is ok, and being a man in makeup is ok.

Anyway, I came across an article (posted by a GC feminist who was rather sarcastic and not at all sympathetic) where the drag queen received online abuse after attending a school for drag story time. So that's what got me thinking really, I don't think anyone should be on the receiving end of a torrent of abuse over something like drag.

I know drag itself is for adults, sexually charged, drugs involved etc and I am completely against "Desmond" and "Lactasia" (sp?) I would never in a million years want children to be encouraged to do drag or be in that scene at all under the age of 18.
Drag story time isn't encouraging that though surely? Like having a clown do tricks in a school, they aren't there saying "you should all start learning to juggle and paint your face now".

In the school setting the drag queens are literally just reading a story, usually with a positive LGB message. They aren't making crude jokes and won't use their same stage name (EG "Flow Job" is just "Flow" and "Popping Cherry" is just "Cherry" etc etc)

Am I being unreasonable in thinking that DQ story time isn't actually that bad, and in fact does send children a positive message particularly to the gender non confirming/LGB/those with LGB family members?

Why does a story need to be read to children by a man in drag?

What's the agenda?

I agree OP.
Drag is generally an adult entertainment but drag Queens are not going to do the full adult version of their act in a school or library. Anymore than Jim Davidson say would do his "blue" material on a family ganeshow.
The only problem I say is with children googling the artist and finding the more adult stuff on their Facebook or twitter. I think some artists keep separate personas for that reason.

YABU because:
I know drag itself is for adults, sexually charged

So why would you want children exposed to it? They are being made to witness and participate in an adult's sexual kicks. And for what?

Learning that adults can reject gender norms in the way they dress should not be skewed towards kinky agp males acting out their misogynist, exaggerated and stereotyped vision of what a woman looks like.

The idea that drag queens represent the LGB community is dire. If people want to get children to appreciate that many of us are LGB then get the gay police officers, the lesbian rock climbers, the gay nurses and so on to come and read to children.
Telling young children that drag artists in over sexualised and usually grotesque images of women represent this community is offensive and regressive.

What has encouraging children to read got to do with the persona of the invitee? What’s in it for the drag queen?

What possible reason can there be for inviting drag queens to read stories to primary school children? Especially when these same drag queens are performing sexually explicit routines in nightclubs? Why not invite pole dancers to read stories? How much kool aid is required to think this is a positive role model for little girls?

I work in a primary school and I can’t understand why schools have such a blind spot when it comes to this community and inviting them into schools, when we are normally so careful about the messages we’re giving to children in our care.

Personally I think female firefighter or male SAHP storytime would do more to break down sex stereotypes. Or, y'know, even butch lesbian or feminine gay man storytime since it's LGBT+ month.

Drag is an important part of the gay scene for sure, but that doesn't mean it's not misogynistic.

And as ever, anyone who has access to kids does need to have some basic grasp of safeguarding that any person who gave the topic 2 seconds of thought would have. For example, not encouraging kids to have close bodily / physical contact with a stranger, even one with good intentions, in case the next stranger doesn't have good intentions. Also, not publishing kids faces in combination with the school's name on Twitter without explicit parental / guardian's consent.

I've got so many issues with drag queen story times which have mostly been covered elsewhere but two that haven't been are:

1. Children should have good stories read to them to generate an interest in literature or at least to encourage them to form sentences. All the drag queen stories I've seen have been very poor and read by someone who wants the attention on themselves and not the story. This is simply abysmal teaching. And

1. The sexualised clothing (I've heard there's footage of genitalia coming out) shows the drag queens don't even think about the children or have any concept of the audience. This is not appropriate.

My gay best friend is horrified at the idea that these ludicrous fake women are supposed to represent him. He’s a man, not an embarrassing version of a woman. I think DQST does gay men a lot of harm and that’s before you consider the offence to women and sexualising of children.

What is the point of Storytime? To read the story, or to admire the reader?

What qualifications, and/or experience of childcare and/or early years education do these people possess?

What safeguarding courses have they taken? If none, who else would be allowed to do this without taking such courses?

but mostly

Why? Just Why? Of all the people you might want to read to children, why these?

If this is the story I think it was, then my issue was the social media that the drag queen had publicly posted. Then had also posted a photo of the children with them in amongst the other images.
Mentions of addiction issues and drug use were also present on their twitter. However one statement said they had been at the school as a role model. Not the role model I would want my primary aged children exposed to!

I know drag itself is for adults, sexually charged
So why would you want children exposed to it? They are being made to witness and participate in an adult's sexual kicks. And for what?

See, I don't think they are exposed to it, the drag queen is dressed up but not doing anything apart from reading a story. The children aren't being twerked at or anything, They often look amazing, colourful, glittery, exactly the sort of thing to engage children's attention and listen to a story.

I disagree re sexual kicks, with drag the appearance is about utter flamboyancy and most are completely gay, not AGP, I think?

these people aren't trying to send a message to children that it's big hair and fake lashes that actually make you a woman

“I liked it. I like butterflies, and she was spreading that you don’t have to be a girl to do boy things, you can be transgender,” said Lucia McCulloch, 8, who was with her mother. “It doesn’t matter what your gender is, it matters what you want it to be.”

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/481b5100-8a1c-11e9-8b21-ee1cb6566fbb?shareToken=0ce468c23bb88122b4eedd385e8edb17

I think it is sending children the message that makeup/dress turns a man into a woman. They are referred to as "she" when in role. At the very least it's blurring boundaries.

The whole drag persona is a parody of (stereotypes of) femininity. Yes I suppose they could go in the costume and not do the persona, but what would be the point? I also think it would be hard not to do the persona with the eyelashes, pouty lipstick etc.

Why would you send an adult entertainer into a school? They're not particularly qualified to entertain children. They're not presenting a normalising image of being gay if you want to recognise drag as a gay subculture. I can imagine small kids thinking I think I might like other boys - wait, what, gay people dress like THAT?

Then again, children have access to search engines. If someone is held up to them as a wholesome entertainer, they pop onto YouTube and search for some more videos of them. And find what?

Seems to me a bit like inviting a burlesque artist or a night club stripper in to read a story, fully dressed but using their stage persona and a reduction of their stage name. They're not stripping in school, what's the problem? Turn it around, why would you?

For any other job in a school, would someone who has a public persona as an adult entertainer be considered appropriate? Teachers lock down their social media presence pretty tight even if they are just doing non-controversial stuff. I think someone doing this would be considered a safeguarding risk if they applied for a job in a school. Why invite them then? So many gender nonconforming people in role model jobs that could be invited instead.

What possible reason can there be for inviting drag queens to read stories to primary school children?

Because they look all glittery and colourful and have an extravagant personality. Children like that sort of thing.

Sorry, the fact children like glitter is nowhere near a credible justification for bringing drag queens into primary school. Not even close.

Because they look all glittery and colourful and have an extravagant personality

That’s why we have Captain Feathersword and Dorothy the Dinosaur.

male SAHP storytime would do more to break down sex stereotypes.
This is a really good idea.
Bring in the dads.

What a weird justification for doing it . Is that your only argument that is for it? I can think of so many arguments against it. There are so many more suitable and entertaining and inspirational and educational people who could be reading to children.

“Children like that sort of thing”?

Good grief.

They are deliberately and consciously grotestque parodies of femininity.

I have no problem with drag in itself but I draw the line at primary schools and reading books. It shouldn't like anything be thrown in someone's face. What if a child felt uncomfortable? I mean as adults if we feel uncomfortable with it we can choose not to interact with it/watch it etc but I feel it's getting forced upon children.

Speaking of the Wiggles, interesting fact: their wiggly finger thing originated from the fact they needed something to do with their hands for photos and didn’t want unfounded accusations of inappropriate touching. One or more of the original bunch has a background in early childhood education I think.

Compare that now to kids sitting on the knees of drag queens and having kids sit in a chair while one dances provocatively around them.

They are deliberately and consciously grotestque parodies of femininity

Absolutely agree. And telling children to call someone who is obviously male 'she?' It is if the explicit aim is to deconstruct the relationship between language and external reality.....