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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women & Girls in Scotland GRA Consultation Guidance

109 replies

GRAconsultationGuidance · 26/02/2020 21:21

Link Here

Please have a read 🙏

OP posts:
GRAconsultationGuidance · 28/02/2020 18:00

Any responses that are removed/excluded can be FOI'd so the best way to 'safeguard' your responses is to submit via the online hub which will email a copy of your response to you, as well as saving a note/screenshot of the submission number/reference.

If there's an effort to do what happened with the swimming pools etc in London (women's pond - where I think nearly half of the responses were discounted) then ensuring any responses that aren't published (if you've said yes to your response being published) can still be evidenced at a later date if necessary will help.

Hopefully there won't be an issue.

OP posts:
GRAconsultationGuidance · 29/02/2020 13:04

Bumpity Nino

OP posts:
GRAconsultationGuidance · 29/02/2020 13:05

Eh? That's some typo! Bump not nino! Weird autocorrect that one!

OP posts:
GRAconsultationGuidance · 02/03/2020 00:03

Further info on the question of what will/won't be counted in responses. Link

"We have received a troubling clarification from the Scottish Govt re consultation responses it will not publish. The govt is now saying it will not publish responses which mention anyone convicted of a crime by name, or any person's known trans status. We will challenge this. We can still FOI those responses for the purposes of our group's analysis, & the govt has confirmed it will include all responses in its own analysis, however this essentially functions as a decision not to make public responses which present the govt with crucial counter evidence re its claims, for example even mentioning Karen White would mean your response won't be published. The govt did not mention in Chapter 1.11 of its consultation paper that it would consider such references as a data protection issue. Even worse, the govt says it won't publish responses where a trans person 'is identifiable by deduction' from the text, so there's no way around it either. This is entirely unacceptable & unnecessary: Naming those who have been convicted of crimes &/or referring to the publicly known trans status of an individual like Karen White does not breach data protection, & we will challenge this with the govt & raise it with the Info Commissioner. We anticipate this will lead to large numbers of responses not being published, but again, pls still robustly respond to the consultation all responses will be included in the govt's analysis & we will FOI responses the govt doesn't publish if we fail to convince the govt to publish them, & the govt has to publish all FOI responses on its website.

The govt also confirmed the following to us:

The govt will review responses itself to decide which should not be published, but, again, it will include all responses in its analysis.

Re offensive language, the govt says much will depend on the context, but the criteria they will be using is that responses which include 'a swear word', 'advocates violent action against a group in society' &/or 'constitutes a threat against another person or group', will not be published.

The govt will also not publish responses which refer to a named transwoman as being male or male bodied, but will publish responses which refer to transwomen as a class as being male, or male bodied.

The govt confirmed that responses which refer to women as females, rather than as a gender identity, will be published. Pls do not let this prevent you from putting in a response which refers to individuals such as Karen White in order to counter the govt's claims or let it weaken your response at all. Pls just ensure to publish your response, which you can do anonymously, & we can then FOI it."

One final point - if you complete your submission online via the hub - Link Here you can get your response emailed to you, so a copy is saved. But it's important whether you select anonymous or not -PLEASE SELECT TO PUBLISH you response.

OP posts:
Luckystar777 · 02/03/2020 04:09

Are we allowed to voice concern regarding the two girls who were assaulted in Fife by a transwoman? Worries that this could happen again?

Luckystar777 · 02/03/2020 04:18

I mean, crimes like that are my main concern, how can we not be allowed to include that when that's my biggest worry?

GRAconsultationGuidance · 03/03/2020 18:54

Yes. Still answer exactly how you need to & the challenge against this nonsense will take care of the rest.

No one should have to curb their reasonable & factually accurate words in order to respond to a government consultation.

OP posts:
Dances · 03/03/2020 19:04

It is beyond shocking that citing names of actual predators in submissions could mean that that the submission is excluded from the consultation stats.

PLEASE make sure that you publish. Also copy and paste your response to word, open source word processing apps or notepad on your device. You can always send it to Women and Girls in Scotland.

Dances · 03/03/2020 21:55

Bumpity bump
And don't forget to publish!

Lamahaha · 04/03/2020 09:23

Brilliant article in the Herald Scotland:

www.heraldscotland.com/news/18279092.iain-macwhirter-nicola-sturgeon-must-defend-womens-rights-lose-next-election/?ref=fbshr&fbclid=IwAR2mx-43cIS3iwudev5_jn0sK3WcDfSha9jkvOB2wrJBiwYAlvM7CKWe7vA

Iain Macwhirter: Nicola Sturgeon must defend women’s rights or lose the next election.

Humans are of course mammals, not fish. The existence of a minuscule number of people born intersex (who are not of course transgender) doesn’t alter the fact that 99.9 per cent of humans are born male or female.

Humans are a binary species. We are not hermaphrodites. Sexual differentiation is the basis of human reproduction. That this needs to be said is a shocking reflection on the intellectual integrity of the left. Many supposedly sensible people have been morally coerced into accepting something they know to be untrue. It is deeply worrying.

Most SNP politicians know that transgender ideology is nonsense. They keep quiet partly because of fear of Britain’s onerous hate speech laws.

littlbrowndog · 04/03/2020 09:58

Bump. And also the below

6 questions for Nicola Sturgeon a very good piece. Sums up this whole shit show
wingsoverscotland.com/

littlbrowndog · 04/03/2020 10:03

Thanks lamaha fron Ian’s piece below

I learned the hard way that this is precisely what they were saying. I was repeatedly accused of hate speech for suggesting that this would mean the removal of human biology from the school curriculum.

Political leaders like Patrick Harvie of the Scottish Greens and the former leader of the Liberal Democrats Jo Swinson continue to insist that people with penises can be and are actually female. Labour’s Shadow Equalities Secretary, Dawn Butler, said last month that “babies are born without a sex”. This is pure flat earthism.

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 04/03/2020 10:16

The govt is now saying it will not publish responses which mention anyone convicted of a crime by name, or any person's known trans status.
AngryAngryAngry i thought I couldn’t be more appalled but there we go.

I bet they will happily publish any women named as committing a crime in responses “women do it too” Angry

GRAconsultationGuidance · 04/03/2020 17:11

Rest assured that this will be challenged. It's important to respond no matter what & it's especially important where women are able to articulate the impact/potential impact on their lives/lives of their loved ones/orgs/services/support/care/participation etc. This consultation isn't just about this bill (for all of us) but about being able to challenge any EHRC guidance & school guidance that's currently being worked on by scotgov. If we can get the evidence of impact/potential impact from this consultation, it all helps the various challenges that we have coming up.

OP posts:
ReinstateLangCleg · 05/03/2020 00:14

Bumping as I need to remember to do this.

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 05/03/2020 09:55

Bump!
Publish & puuuulllllll

ScrimshawTheSecond · 05/03/2020 10:39

citing names of actual predators in submissions could mean that that the submission is excluded from the consultation

If there was any doubt that the govt intend to sanitise this 'consultation' by manipulation, obfuscation and diversion, we can lay that aside. Shocking, SNP. Absolutely shocking. As I said before, I've voted SNP up til now. No more. You do NOT get to patronise, lie and twist people's responses like this and remain a party any self respecting person would vote for.

Even if I were a fervent TRA supporter, I would want and expect a public consultation to be conducted fairly, openly and without prejudice. This is actually really quite ominous in terms of revealing how you view the electorate (I'm talking to you, Ms Sturgeon) - people to be governed, bullied, and herded, rather than the people that politicians are elected to serve in the interests of.

Thanks so much for all those giving guidance on the matter. Ridiculous that one has to arm oneself with so much information in order to take part in what is supposed to be an open exercise in democratic 'consultation'.

NonnyMouse1337 · 05/03/2020 10:50

Ridiculous that one has to arm oneself with so much information in order to take part in what is supposed to be an open exercise in democratic 'consultation'.

That's what pisses me off the most about this whole consultation.

Becles · 05/03/2020 19:31

Bumping for those who may have missed the consultation

Women & Girls in Scotland GRA Consultation Guidance
MrsSnippyPants · 05/03/2020 19:48

ReSisters are running a 'consultation party' next Thursday (12th) and will have people available to help you fill in the consultation or just to keep you company while you do Grin

twitter.com/ReSistersU/status/1235527654130008064?s=20

Women & Girls in Scotland GRA Consultation Guidance
PlayYouLikeAShark · 05/03/2020 22:28

That's brilliant 👍

littlbrowndog · 05/03/2020 22:53

Bump

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 06/03/2020 14:05

Up again

Oldstyle · 06/03/2020 20:43

Bumping. Have just done it - took 15 minutes.

Wrote some bits from my own knowledge but also used the superb guidance published by WPUK, Transgender Trend, For Woman Scot etc to do a cut & paste job.

www.transgendertrend.com/scottish-gender-recognition-act-bill-simple-guide/

Please participate. This is so important. Deadline March 17.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 06/03/2020 22:20

Well, I had a squizz at

Murray Blackburn & Mackenzie
Women & Girls Scotland
Woman's Place
For Women Scotland.

Found the latter clear and succint, so just copied and pasted it. Took about 15 minutes, yep.

Thanks for the bumps, all, and all the work put in on this consultation.

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