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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Keir Starmer understand safe spaces.....?

48 replies

Cwenthryth · 26/02/2020 14:52

Maybe?

m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/keir-starmer-huffpost-interview-bigger-the-win-the-better_uk_5e5516e4c5b6ad3de384561c?utm_hp_ref=uk-homepage&ncid=other_homepage_tiwdkz83gze&utm_campaign=mw_entry_recirc

When I was director of public prosecutions, one in 10 victims [of domestic abuse] was coming forward and nine out of 10 wasn’t. We were all focused on what we do in the criminal justice system quite rightly,” Starmer said.

“But the real problem was that very many victims of domestic violence, sexual violence, didn’t feel like a tell anyone about it. And I think that does mean profound change, I tried to change the criminal justice bit, you know, how do you actually prosecute these cases, how do you link up with the police?

“There’s a step before that, which I don’t think we properly tackled or got right which is: where’s the safe space for victims to actually go to discuss what’s happened to them? And the idea that a victim of domestic violence or sexual violence is going to walk into a police station and report what’s happened to them is so unlikely that we shouldn’t have it as the model anymore.”

Starmer said he remembers vividly when he called in specialist trainers at the DPP to underline why safe spaces were needed.

“They had a group of about a hundred staff in a training programme. And then they said to the staff ‘turn to the person next to you and tell them the best sexual experience you’ve ever had’. And of course everyone blushes red and doesn’t know what to do. And then they said ‘imagine how difficult it would be to tell someone the worst’. And it really brought it home to people.

So if KS sees the value in safe spaces - can he see why women may need safe spaces away from males - irrespective of how nice those individual males are, or how they may identify or ‘feel like’ women themselves? He’s never going to say that out loud right now, obviously.....but maybe just maybe he does actually get this.

(The typo errors are original; apparently no one proof reads anything any more!)

OP posts:
Cwenthryth · 26/02/2020 14:53

Haha the grammatical error in the thread title is all mine, though, that’s what you get for snobbish pedantry Grin

OP posts:
MindTheMinotaur · 26/02/2020 18:41

That's a key point isn't it, lots of women and girls have suffered violence that they haven't disclosed. Being around men/boys can cause them additional stress and single sex toilets, changing rooms and the rest are needed to support them. It isn't just about safeguarding, the likelihood of an attack or the fact that they can report anything that happens (but they probably won't). Why are the feels of vulnerable men prioritised over vulnerable women and girls?

OhHolyJesus · 26/02/2020 18:48

I've seen how it's possible that you 'understand' safe space and think that TWAW, which in my view means you don't actually understand safe spaces. Some cannot separate the two or see the conflicts, the dangers.

Some go up a level and see TWAW but that Self ID could be abused and that women need protection, but still don't see that in many cases (loos, changing rooms) it simply comes down to the male gaze and being uncomfortable.

I'm so disappointed in all the candidates and I'm preparing for a Tory government for...well, a good long while...

ListeningQuietly · 26/02/2020 19:18

Keir is keeping his powder dry
I do think that TWAW has rather shot their bolt over the last couple of months
the worm will turn

Evenquieterlife33 · 26/02/2020 19:21

I can’t settle for him. Bored of the idea of settling for people who “might” be in support of us really. I want people who are happy to come out clearly I’m support of women and children.

Violetparis · 26/02/2020 19:26

ListeningQuietly why do you think that of Keir when he has clearly stated TWAW ? I'm hoping Andrew Neil grills him on the subject so I see more of what he thinks before I decide whether to vote for him.

Cwenthryth · 26/02/2020 19:26

I get you, evenquieter. But we (those with a vote in the election) only have the choice of Starmer, Long-Bailey or Nandy. That’s it. I don’t think abstentions are helpful when some options are worse than others even if all are undesirable.

OP posts:
Violetparis · 26/02/2020 19:28

I agree the worm will turn in terms of women sticking up for themselves, just not sure Labour will back them up.

Violetparis · 26/02/2020 19:53

I'm hoping Keir is asked at some point whether he agrees with Lisa Nandy that male rapists who then identify as female should be placed in women's prisons.

ListeningQuietly · 26/02/2020 20:53

Violet
why do you think that of Keir when he has clearly stated TWAW
When did he say that?
I do not doubt that he might have seemed to say it I'd like to see the link ?
he's a lawyer, caveat central
Just that I'm utterly certain he is constantly biting his tongue until he's in a position to tell Momentum to hike

Thelnebriati · 26/02/2020 21:12

He signed a pledge that says TWAW. Not the pledge, but another similar one.
twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1227878854183792642

ListeningQuietly · 26/02/2020 21:20

Read his words ....
"These pledges have my full support"
"will campaign for the changes highlighted here"
Trust me the row back space in there is a mile wide
He is a Human Rights lawyer
there is a reason the English thesaurus is bigger than any other in the world

StillWeRise · 26/02/2020 21:32

I really hope you're right
I heard him speak about fgm when he was DPP, he had no reason to take up this cause (and when I heard him, he had come to listen to grassroots campaigners)- so I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt

Muuuuuuuum · 26/02/2020 21:32

My local MP phoned me during the GRA consultation after I contacted her to voice concerns. She is definitely gender critical but said until it was brought to parliament it wasn't worth the grief / pile on it caused to say anything, Brexit was focus.

I emailed her recently re the CPS guidelines for schools on hate crimes and the Labour trans pledge stuff. Her response was brief but was reassuring - absolutely understood concerns and that is why she is supporting Keir.

I am hoping as someone who knows him, she knows his views and they align with her's. Basically as it's the only hope I've got...

Violetparis · 26/02/2020 22:07

I hope you're right ListeningQuietly though supporting a pledge saying TWAW does make me doubt him. It's why I want him to come under scrutiny on the subject.

ListeningQuietly · 26/02/2020 22:14

Violet
He will be scrutinised
but he also has to hang on in there till he can make Momentum history

Violetparis · 26/02/2020 22:18

But it's not just Momentum supporting this though, it's Angela Rayner, Lisa Nandy, RLB, Jess Phillips etc, likely members of his shadow cabinet. I'm just not sure and so fed up with feeling fed up with Labour.

TheQueef · 26/02/2020 22:20

To listen to my feels I don't actually think he is the best of a bad bunch.

I think he is the best man in the party.
And it will have to be a man, I wish we could have a Woman leader but who could manage Boris and try and repair the party with clean hands?

LexMitior · 26/02/2020 22:23

Are they really likely members? I mean, if Angela Rayner is deputy then she will be given a safe portfolio to neutralise how important she is - likewise the others. Keir Starmer isn’t stupid - he had to work with these people because of Corbyn, but that doesn’t mean he rates them himself.

Violetparis · 26/02/2020 22:27

I do expect all of those I've named to be in the shadow cabinet, I presume the deputy leader which will be Angela Rayner will be included.

LexMitior · 26/02/2020 22:31

Why? I mean, politics is about getting good people in. As you say, they have very doubtful abilities given how stupid they have been.

Angela Rayner will get a post if she is deputy. Zilch power with it. See how effective Tom Watson was to note how little power there can be in the post.

Violetparis · 26/02/2020 22:35

Why ? - because Keir Starmer has already said RLB and Lisa Nandy will have jobs in the shadow cabinet if he wins.

Tellingitlikeitisnt · 26/02/2020 22:35

@Muuuuuuuum who is your MP?
That’s really interesting

I think Keir gets it. He had a great History of understanding VAWG and supporting initiatives and change.
I understand the frustration in him not unequivocally saying TWATW and biology matters but I also understand how careful he needs to be to avoid a pile on

I’m going to take a punt that he won’t sell us all down the river and vote for him

Violetparis · 26/02/2020 22:36

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/23/keir-starmer-commits-to-shadow-cabinet-posts-for-long-bailey-and-nandy&ved=2ahUKEwiwrrfao_DnAhVFqHEKHUU8CcgQFjAIegQIBBAC&usg=AOvVaw0Rna3nWChptjIU11jPzwWw&ampcf=1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/23/keir-starmer-commits-to-shadow-cabinet-posts-for-long-bailey-and-nandy&ved=2ahUKEwiwrrfao_DnAhVFqHEKHUU8CcgQFjAIegQIBBAC&usg=AOvVaw0Rna3nWChptjIU11jPzwWw&ampcf=1

LexMitior · 26/02/2020 22:38

@Violetparis - he said he will make an offer. That is not a guarantee of anything of influence.

There are a lot of better people in Labour than Nandy and RLB. They are not first in the queue for anything.

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