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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'How did we get here?' podcast

11 replies

cornflakegirl · 25/02/2020 19:47

I've just listened to the Joanna episode of the How did we get here podcast with Claudia Winkleman and Tanya Byron. I heard it plugged on the Fortunately podcast and thought it sounded interesting, and now I feel really uncomfortable.

Joanna is married to Helen, a transwoman who started transition nearly 20 years ago. Joanna went on the podcast to talk about staying in the relationship, the struggles she went through and to give hope to others in a similar situation. She says she has made a conscious choice to stay in the relationship and that they are soul mates. She talks about all that she has lost, and the changes she has made to benefit others including their now-grown-up children. She says she has gained an understanding of how strong she is as a person.

Then she raises the question of sex. They don't have sex. She still dreams of having sex with a man. She is uncomfortable with the idea of enjoying sex with a woman, and wonders if it is because of her religious upbringing. Tanya sensitively counsels her about a process where they could very slowly start to explore a more intimate relationship.

But at no point did Tanya give Joanna permission to explore the idea that maybe she doesn't fancy Helen with a (presumably) feminised body, and that that is okay. Obviously it's also okay if she does fancy Helen's feminised body. But it's been nearly 20 years. Joanna has given up so much for everyone else. They couldn't even have the conversation?

OP posts:
cornflakegirl · 25/02/2020 19:48

Sorry - that did have paragraphs when I wrote it...

OP posts:
Francina670 · 25/02/2020 19:56

I think Tanya listens to what people say and tries to help them explain their own thoughts and feelings rather than suggest things to them.

MrsNoah2020 · 25/02/2020 20:07

Tanya has swallowed the Kool Aid. She does an advice column in the Times, and tells anyone concerned about gender dysphoric children to affirm them being trans.

Languishingfemale · 25/02/2020 20:20

Agree with MrsNoah2020
I like some of Tanya's work - her house of tiny tearaways was excellent in terms of children and behaviour. But she has an unthinkingly tone deaf approach to women's rights and autonomy in relation to the demands of transitioning men. And that column (if I recall correctly) involved a girl being bullied and her whole approach was that of appeasement and submission of the girl to the demands of transitioning child. The comments from readers were scathing.

cornflakegirl · 25/02/2020 20:22

Francina - Tanya very much steered the conversation though (at least, as far as one can tell from the edit).

What if Joanna were a woman who had realised that she was a lesbian 20 years ago, but still felt her husband was her soul mate and wanted to stay married. Would Tanya have given the same advice then? Not to worry about genitals, and that an orgasm is an orgasm?

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EverardDigby · 25/02/2020 20:28

I've really liked Tanya Byron up until now, and I listened to the first one of this series and I really disliked it, as I felt that she was psychoanalysing the client's dad and attributing motives to him that he may or may not have, I didn't think it was right to analyse someone not in the room; she was quite definite about it as well, not even a "maybe you could look at it from another angle". I started to listen to the one about the mother and work-life balance but couldn't bear it, she was calling clients "sweetheart" or something like that, which I just find patronising and infantilising. So anyway there was no way I was going to listen to the trans episode, I think the way it was described just indicated what it would be about.

BINtersectionalFeminism · 25/02/2020 22:57

I too heard it plugged on the Fortunately podcast but thought it might give me the rage so I haven’t listened yet.

womaninblue · 25/02/2020 23:15

I heard her on Fortunately and really disliked the way she talked about things – but then I found the whole OTT love-fest between her and Claudia pretty sickening.

I'm going right off Fortunately. It's too formulaic and incestuous and I get the feeling Jane Garvey, who's the best thing about it, is bored. It's past its prime and needs putting out of its misery.

Binterested · 25/02/2020 23:19

Yes that column she did in the Times was an absolute disgrace. She clearly outsourced it to Mermaids and did no checking whatsoever. I lost all confidence in her professionalism then.

Binterested · 25/02/2020 23:21

Link to the thread discussing the original column here

EverardDigby · 26/02/2020 06:31

To be fair the first Podcast was a gay young man (early 20s) who felt shit because he had a poor relationship with his father. I was interested because my Dd is in the same situation, but Tanya's advice was basically your poor dad, he's obviously got mental health problems / social anxiety or something like that, just go and do what he wants to do (walking in the countryside) because it's the only place your poor dad feels safe, and build your relationship by doing something you've already told me you find really boring and all centred around him.

I completely understand the need to look at it from different angles to help the client realise that it's not about him, but this went too far IME in a similar way to the Times column in meeting the needs of the other person in the relationship and not the client.

I'm really disappointed with this podcast and it's the sort of thing I'd normally listen to, but I can't bear it!

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