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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The 'bloody' misogyny of Pink News

77 replies

Dances · 25/02/2020 19:17

mobile.twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1232338263492440064

God forbid women go out when they menstruate

OP posts:
FrogsFrogs · 26/02/2020 20:02

Loads of men can only shit on home turf, it's not like they're all free and easy ...

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/02/2020 20:11

Like someone online who said that it's bad girls are embarrassed about their developing bodies and getting them to undress in front of men might help them get over it wtf

I might be misremembering, but I think that was Peter Tatchell Angry

FrogsFrogs · 26/02/2020 20:43

Oh lord yes I think you're right

Jesus that's shocking

I was thinking, it's such an outrageous thing to suggest someone will ask me for a link and I don't have one

But you're right it was tatchell.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 26/02/2020 20:45

And the thing is he doesn't even have any interest in seeing those girls himself, he's just clodhoppingly insensitive and indifferent to women's opinions.

HavelockVetinari · 26/02/2020 20:50

@allmywhat brilliant! I'm pinching that with pride Grin

SapphireSeptember · 26/02/2020 21:26

@FFSFFSFFS
^Some dinosaur of a Tory peer wants to get rid of gender neutral toilets "so women can wash their bloody knickers without men seeing if they leak while on a night out".

Because that's what we miss about nights out, eh ladies? All hunkered down around the Dyson drying our knickers in the pub? Those were the fun times. And wailing when the handsoap was the cheap stuff because it does NOT get those stains out like Molten Brown soap does? Oh, the times we had!

Clearly this fuckwit has never met an actual human woman in his life. What on earth does he think we DO in there, for goodness sake?!!

If you need me, I'll be in the ladies boil-washing my kecks... feel free to join me, girls.^

There you go, thought I'd just copy and paste it rather than trying to explain it. I can't see where he mentioned nights out during his speech (I sent her the link to the full transcript of the debate.) I did mention how mixed sex toilets in schools are a terrible idea because they were my safe haven away from the boys who bullied me, how I've had to wash blood off my hands after changing san-pro and bloody knickers and how there's no way I'd want to do that in front of men (and I'm a grown adult, I cannot imagine being a teenage girl and having to do it in front of boys.)

Durgasarrow · 26/02/2020 22:04

The title is gloriously 100 percent back assward No, genius, Women do not "want to wash their bloody underwear 'in public'--that's exactly why they want women's only spaces where actual w-o-m-e-n will understand what is happening. Not male tampon fetishists, validation vampires, and jackanapes who have no understanding of the female experience who will write about it in a tittering tone like this.

FFSFFSFFS · 26/02/2020 22:13

@SapphireSeptember 0h good lord. It's just such a complete denial of the realities for some women for getting their periods. Has she seriously never seen a woman cleaning blood off of at least their hands.

The problem is that people are painting themselves into a corner so desperately trying to be correct that they will just get even more defensive because people don't like admitting that they're wrong.

Glad you referred to them as mixed sex toilets.

SapphireSeptember · 26/02/2020 23:04

I've no idea, I haven't personally except for on myself but I've read enough posts on here about women with really heavy periods to be able to empathise with what some women go through every month. I've had my period start unexpectedly and not noticed till it was too late, but I stuff loo-roll in my knickers and wait till I get home to sort it out because it's not been too bad. Luckily I can do that cos my periods aren't heavy when they start. I can't imagine how awful it must feel to flood to the point it soaks your clothes. Sad

Is this also about women feeling shame about menstruation? It makes me sad that the natural bodily function is embarrassing for so many.

This is the comment one of her male friends left, I like to think I've just eviscerated his nonsense. FFS, stop the press, a man has spoken! About something they'll never understand. Hmm

Whathappenedwhy · 26/02/2020 23:15

SapphireSeptember
I've seen a lot of that on twitter, that women (terfs) are shaming women for having periods, and it never happens that girls or women clean their underware when they have leaked in public toilets.
Is that DARVO? Gaslighting?

niceclock · 26/02/2020 23:24

wow.

SapphireSeptember · 26/02/2020 23:53

@Whathappenedwhy

I do not understand why anyone would say we're the ones doing the shaming, we're the ones who want women and girls to be able to get on with the realities of being female away from the male gaze.

Could be both, for all I know.

wellbehavedwomen · 27/02/2020 00:42

Tatchell's views on safeguarding.

Full video here.

His thoughts on girls who want single sex provision:

"we need to challenge those who feel uncomfortable, to make them feel comfortable in their own bodies, and around the bodies of others, to enable them not to feel embarrassed or threatened or ashamed".

This is a man who wrote to the Guardian in the late 1990s, saying consensual sex was possible between adults and 9 year olds. While that doesn't for a moment mean he would pose any sort of a threat to children or young people himself, it does mean he has espoused views that should give teaching staff at least some pause. Is it now too much to ask, that schools don't invite guest speakers with a history of paedophile apologism? I mean, sure, he was an LGB campaigner at a time when there was hideous bigotry. So were, and are, plenty of people who didn't say raping children was fine in some contexts. Why not ask them?

He also claims girls pose a sexual assault risk to one another. That is a clear lie. Stats on this are unequivocal. Sexual violence is, overwhelmingly and almost wholly, male perpetrated.

And let's get real: if he honestly believed that transwomen were women, he wouldn't give a shit about them, either. He knows.

The whiteboard example Nina Funnell gave:

'Some years ago, I ran an exercise with young men and women. I asked the men to write on the whiteboard what they did every day to avoid being sexually harassed or assaulted.

Blank faces.

I then asked the women what they did every day to avoid being sexually harassed or assaulted.

Mad scribbling ensued.

“I cover my drinks at bars.”

“I sit in the backs of taxis”

“I walk the long way home because it’s better lit”

“I thread my keys between my fingers like Wolverine when walking through carparks”

“I sit with other women on trains”

“I try not to dress for attention”

And on and on it goes. Women are surprised to realise the extent to which they have internalised sexual threat as an omnipresent white noise in their life.'

Yet Tatchell thinks that young girls reluctant to strip in front of boys and men should be challenged over it because they're no longer allowed to feel threatened. Tell you what, Tatchell. Stop men raping, assaulting, threatening, flashing and filming us, and we'll consider it. Till then you can fuck off: women get to decide how they feel about who accesses their bodies.

Those are boundaries. Boundaries women and girls need to enforce from the youngest possible age, just to try to avoid male depredation. Is he deaf? Do we need to use smaller words? Or does he just not regard us as human?

Women's rights are not his to redistribute.

wellbehavedwomen · 27/02/2020 00:58

The comments from women on Lord Lucas's thread are really brave, and honest. Painful, at times.

And of course women feel shame around periods. We're constantly told that they're shameful. They used blue water for years, ffs, when advertising sanpro. Even pink was seen as uncomfortably close to the bone.

This is classic, "Be a lady! They said." territory. All the social pressure to do one thing and feel one way, and when women internalise that huge social pressure and respond to it, they're told disdainfully that they're being ridiculous.

And this is not just around periods. Women feel safer and more relaxed in single sex environments for.very.good.fucking.reason.

The sheer selfishness of this argument is breathtaking. The fact is, no male needs access to single sex. They'd not campaign for unisex if they did. We do need that single sex. Why not just remove the urinals and make men's loos unisex instead? Problem solved.

Lord Lucas is bloody wonderful. So to speak.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 27/02/2020 01:07

What irks me is that the Pink News article was 100% an attempt to period shame women into shutting up, so for them to then turn around and accuse other people of what they themselves did just adds to the sense that these people genuinely despise women and will stop at nothing to achieve their goals.

UpfieldHatesWomen · 27/02/2020 08:12

It's baffling. Lord Lucas actually takes the time to consult women and listen to our views on a fairly taboo subject that only affects women and he gets called a dinosaur. It's as simple as Tory = bad, Lefty = good for some, isn't it? Must be comforting to have such a simplified view of reality.

FrogsFrogs · 27/02/2020 08:41

Classic reversal used against feminists all the time

Most of our gains seem to get leveraged against us but we have to keep going

ErrolTheDragon · 27/02/2020 09:17

While sometimes 'dinosaur' denotes someone with attitudes overdue for extinction, in this case it's just a cheap ageist insult. As LL has had 3 wives and 2 daughters, far from having 'never met an actual human woman in his life.' It seems he's a mature adult who respects and listens to women.

SapphireSeptember · 27/02/2020 10:05

Hmm, my friend seems to have backed down a bit. She still thinks the idea of women washing and drying their clothes in the women's loo is ridiculous though.

Errol I pointed that out. I love the threads from his Twitter I read yesterday. He's asking women about their experiences and actually listening.

Peter Tatchell can get in the sea. How fucking dare he lecture teenage girls like that. Girls should be gaslighted into feeling wrong for not being comfortable with the idea of changing around teenage boys.

ahagwearsapointybonnet · 27/02/2020 10:20

Tell her to wait till menopause Sapphire. I've never really had these sorts of issues personally, and I think a lot (obv not all by any means!) of younger people, especially if they are on hormonal contraception, may have only ever experienced relatively light and predictable periods. But now I have friends who are getting towards that stage, it's definitely not unusual for one of us to have "issues" and have to be careful where they sit, or to be accompanied to the loos with discreet friend- or coat-positioning for a clean-up.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 27/02/2020 10:37

I've never experienced flooding but assume the menopause may still have that in store for me. A friend described her experience as "you know that scene in The Shining with the twins and the lift?"

enjoyingSun · 27/02/2020 11:44

She still thinks the idea of women washing and drying their clothes in the women's loo is ridiculous though.

I've had periods of time with horrendous periods including flooding but actually washing nickers in sinks out in public never done – even in female only facility too embarrassed to attempt.

I was taught to always carry spares - remember having to walk back through open plan male populated offices to get handbag and how utterly embrassing that was. Having been to US I'm also grateful cubicles in UK don't have such huge gaps and high doors.

I've certainly had to cope with bloody hands - which personally I find embarrassing enough without men being present. DD school sinks are between the male/female toilets, so I've made sure she has wipes just in case.

I'm also grateful someone invented period pants – the ones that are used with as extra protection – as they help avoid mess and relive fears about it.

definitelygc · 27/02/2020 14:14

@enjoyingSun period pants are bloody amazing! (yep, fully intended). They've genuinely changed my life. I only wish we'd had them when I was a teenager.

enjoyingSun · 27/02/2020 14:52

definitelygc I agree - would have been very useful as teen and in 20s though if I have a similar menopause as DMum they may help me in future avoid some of the embarrassments she endured before her hysterectomy.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 27/02/2020 15:27

I'm post menopausal now but the times I was prone to period accidents were when they first started and towards the end. I remember DH saying thank fuck I worked from home after the number of times I'd flooded the sofa. It would have been a nightmare in public.

I've rinsed my knickers out in the ladies, wrapped them in loo roll and stuck them in my handbag. The only time I remember being able to put them on again they were spectacularly skimpy ones.

And there's all the other things women do in loos: cry, console each other, vomit and - probably the most urgent - evade unwelcome male attention.

When I was a barmaid many years ago a man going into the ladies got an immediate ban. And rightly so.