House of Lords- Women Spaces Hurrah

[Harshmallow01]

hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/2020-02-24/debates/D9459D1B-FADF-4765-AB3F-F55D4B322060/details#contribution-2670DB0F-6187-447E-AAC2-492C68088654

I was just about to share this

Wow. Tanni Grey-Thompson's comments were particularly powerful. Talking about upskirting risks and her own personal challenges.

Oh that is brilliant. Another one for sharing.
I particularly liked:
Stonewall should put away its kimono and baseball bat and settle down to the idea that maybe it needs to modify its rather extreme views

Wow this is amazing

Actually the whole thing is quotable. I'm over the moon at this.

This is great! I'm going to read the whole thing tonight.

Don't want to derail this thread but wondered if anyone had seen the Twitter feed from Helen Pidd from The Guardian, she is asking for questions from those who are wavering on voting for Lisa Nandy as she is interviewing her at some point today. The replies to her tweet certainly will show The Guardian and the Labour Party that this issue is not going away anytime soon.

Only on the first bit but a brave woman had me in stitches

What a brilliantly worded argument.

Brilliant.

Rather annoying that it got derailed to discuss disabled toilets instead.
The only really good bit was the opening speech. But I suppose it’s a start.

Background
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3825462-Help-me-reply-to-Lord-Lucas-now-before-debate-on-Monday?pg=1

They show an astonishing amount of knowledge and have researched thoroughly...except for the LD who bleated on about all the women who are sex offenders as a diversion from the concerns expressed....if only others would come out and look at the issues. Thank you to Lord Lucas for speaking so clearly. Most of them get it.

Can anyone explain why Baroness Brinton (Lib Dems) started going on about female paedophiles?

What on earth did that have to with single-sex provision of lavatories?

It's a common tactic. They often use the presence of lesbians in refuges as to why we should just let men in, and if there are loads of female paedophiles lurking in our toilets then we might as well just let men in there too.

Obvious, innit?

Lib Dems are a disgrace.

Okay, wanted to double-check before I write to her personally and tell her how shameful her comments are, and also to a friend who is high-up in the local Lib Dems and has reasons to be interested in this debate.

I was reading this on twitter. Bloody god show (mostly).

Violetparis, yes - what fabulously encouraging comments on that Twitter thread! Surely they can’t continue to ignore such overwhelming numbers of women enraged by her signing the trans pledge and her wholesale trashing of women’s rights?

There are people who have the ear of the LibDems who seem to have an undue degree of influence, especially with reference to the so-called 'spousal veto', which LibDem peers seem to be desperate to remove.

There is also the total of £1.4m in donations from a pharmaceutical company who produce puberty blockers.

The LibDems appear very murky indeed but I'm sure it must all be above board, mustn't it?

Will read it properly tonight but the opening speech cuts right through the crap, doesn't it?

Rather annoying that it got derailed to discuss disabled toilets instead.

That's an important issue, and if the intent is to shape the provision of 'changing and toilet facilities in public buildings' as per the title, it's a vital component of the mix.

Good stuff apart from the shameful LD contribution.

Lord Lucas (Con)
(extract)

"There should be a genuine and open discussion about who should be allowed in the Ladies and similar women’s facilities and under what circumstances, and that discussion should take place without insults. The first requirement for that is that the Government should step up. The Government have a responsibility to hold the ring in these discussions. They have vacated the ring and allowed it to become a space for warring interest groups, and that has been extremely destructive. Also, the principal interest groups—those with the strongest and longest reputations—need to commit themselves to discussion. Stonewall should put away its kimono and baseball bat and settle down to the idea that maybe it needs to modify its rather extreme views. The Fawcett Society should listen to its founder and the quote that is on the statue in Parliament Square,

“Courage calls to courage everywhere”,

and get involved in the discussion in a serious way.

At the moment, we have a serious firefight, but the people who are getting hurt are not the combatants, they are the transgender and other vulnerable people who are on the sidelines. It is our responsibility as a Government and as a society to settle these things in a civilised way and to produce a civilised outcome. I do think that there is the potential for that. If we settle down to do it, we shall be successful.

There are many aspects of the relationships between women and trans women, and men and trans men, that need sorting out. We need to sort out who is allowed to compete in sport, who is allowed in which kind of spaces and what kind of services people are allowed to request from someone of the natal gender they require. I do not see why women should be required to provide intimate services, such as a search, to someone not of their own sex. I do not see why women should have to be examined by someone who is genetically male if they would prefer someone genetically female. These are difficult questions, I think they need sorting out, and I urge the Government to get a grip."

The demand that government/s 'get a grip' is now a matter of Hansard record.
I hope that all MPs & MSPs are reminded of this.

Hurrah indeed & thanks Ralph Palmer (Lord Lucas)

My heart soared when I read the opening speech! (especially the bit about the kimono and the baseball bat...)

Sal Brinton is the one who said at the Fawcett Society event that she would be absolutely happy with a parliament made up of 50% men, 50% transwomen isn't she?

Well, disabled women are still women, aren't we. Discussing our needs in the toilet debate isn't a "distraction"?!

And remember it is quite common to hear (even here on mn where people are generally more aware of disability issues that the rest of the population) "if you don't feel safe in the men's, use the disabled toilet instead"...

Baroness Grey-Thompson (CB)
(extract)
"Let me be very clear that the vast majority of people will not use access to women’s spaces to get close to women and girls in an unhealthy way. But I have been involved in elite sport for the last 40 years, and we have seen that a small number of horrible individuals will use their position to get close to children, women and boys. That is why we need to have protections in place. There is a reason that the UN, WaterAid and other organisations have called for single-sex spaces. Social convention is there to safeguard women and girls to prevent harm. Eroding social convention will make it harder to maintain these boundaries.

Sadly, we live in a world of upskirting, secret filming of women and girls in toilets, and rape videos posted online and made available for purchase or subscription. Maybe we know more about abuse these days, but we have hundreds of years of history of this. Much as I want it to go away, we are not at that point yet. Historically, there are not enough spaces for women’s toilets whether in sports venues, theatres or public buildings. I grew up in a world where there were no accessible toilets. As a young child, visiting the Tower of London at seven years old, I asked someone where the nearest accessible toilet was; I was told Paddington —brilliant.

We talk about the urinary leash: women not being able to leave their homes because of the risk of not being able find toilets. As a disabled person, I face that problem every single day. When an accessible toilet is not being used as a storeroom, there is a last-moment celebration. Every train I get on and every new building I go to, I have to think about whether there is an accessible toilet. " (continues)

Do read the full speech by Tanni Grey-Thompson, its very important.
Thank you