Cartoon in the Morning Star

[Cwenthryth]

Kristina Harrison (prominent gender. critical transwoman, WPUK supporter) just posted this on Twitter - apparently it was published in the Morning Star.

KH wrote “This cartoon appeared in The Morning Star earlier this week @MStarOnline It is a horrific, generalised demonisation of trans people which does not belong in a civilised society, let alone a socialist newspaper. I condemn it utterly. Trans people & progressive opponents of identity politics are owed an unequivocal apology, an explanation & reassurance about what action is being taken to ensure that the line between fierce but legitimate argument and bigotry is never crossed again. Totally unacceptable. (not posting a direct link as I don’t want to facilitate any pile on against Kristina, clearly this is a sensitive personal issue for a transwoman).

Comments are supportive of KH so far. I thought it’d be a good topic for discussion here - does this ‘demonise trans people’ or does it baldly illustrate safeguarding concerns with self-ID? Is it different from the popular/accepted(?) ‘Fox identifying into the henhouse’ analogy? Hopefully we can keep things civil and respectful with no personal criticisms of Kristina.

Harrison seems to have a visceral response to being included in a generalisation that makes Harrison feel women might not share the same view that there is a difference between Harrison and others.

I can see why it would sting to realize that from a woman's perspective whether or not a male is dysphoric doesn't really matter all that much. That doesn't mean that women's perspectives are invalid, or that they should be subordinated to protect male feelings.

Again, think carefully about whether a male expecting you to do so is a useful ally.

Imagine being a trans widow whose husband is so ingratiated in the feminist movement that favours can be called in and cartoons denounced and withdrawn virtually over night.

Yes

I thought of the important Make More Noise article last night & this morning:
'A Plea for Help for Feminists from a Trans Widow'
(extract)
"What can you do to help women like me?

Don’t call my ex “she” when you talk about him to me. Call him what you like when you speak to him, but describing him with female pronouns to me, makes my life not make sense and my daughter’s life not make sense.

Don’t, under any circumstances, refer to him as my daughter’s mother. She only has one mother and it is not him.

Seek out and share the stories of trans widows. Help our voices to be heard. Late transitioning men leave women and girls in their wake- wives, mothers, daughters and sisters who are asked not only to rewrite their past but to celebrate a new future that they do not recognise.

Many trans widows report feeling gagged by everybody else lauding their partners as “stunning and brave”. Our ex’s are often celebrated twitter personalities, newspaper columnists or the subjects of documentaries, but those of us wives who leave are forced to remain anonymous for fear of reprisals. Support those women who put themselves and their children first.

When you hear of a late transitioning male, let your first thought be for these women and how they are affected. If it is somebody in your circle of acquaintance, seek out the wife or the mother and let her know that she has your support.

Defend our use of the term “Trans Widow” as some people question its appropriateness. However it is the name that we have chosen for ourselves and it is enabling us to find each other and to share our experiences. Women talking to each other is a powerful weapon.

Don’t exclude some women from feminism in the interests of inclusiveness. Imagine seeking support from other women, only to find that your husband or father had got there first?

When you allow our ex partners space in your feminism and give them platforms in your organisations and at your meetings, you exclude their wives, daughters, sisters and mothers from accessing these spaces and making use of resources that were set up to support women like them. Prioritise women over your desire to have a “get out of jail free” card to hold up against hostile accusations of bigotry" (continues)
makemorenoisemanc.wixsite.com/mysite/post/a-plea-for-help-for-feminists-from-a-trans-widow

makemorenoisemanc.wixsite.com/mysite/post/a-plea-for-help-for-feminists-from-a-trans-widow

Again, think carefully about whether a male expecting you to do so is a useful ally.

And about what they might ultimately expect in return for their allyship.

Also in the light of the removal and apology for the cartoon, consider the ways in which including "GC transwomen" in the movement to push back against TRA overreach limits what can be discussed, shapes the discussions that do happen, and ultimately relegates women's concerns to secondary status.

Every person in our society has been socialized to defer to males. Some of us have unpacked and rejected that socialization, but most have not, and that has serious implications when involving males in something like WPUK (which is why some of us had concerns about that from the beginning, and are not surprised to see how it's playing out).

The truly GC transgender males can be counted on one hand (using that term carefully Mumsnet HQ, because the people I refer to don’t use women’s spaces or identify as female, so it makes little sense to use ‘transwomen’.

They also don’t police the speech (inc cartoons) of women, and their own activism is aimed at other male people, not women.

They are having "GC" now as well are they. FFS.

The truly GC transgender males

Surely that's an oxymoron?

Great minds SpartacusLangClegicus

I'd see how a GC GNC male could exist (and in fact it's surprising and a bit sad there aren't more of them), but would be confused as to why they'd call themselves transgender.

If you don't believe in gender identity (ie you're gender critical) you can't be transgender. You're just gender non conforming.

Also in the light of the removal and apology for the cartoon, consider the ways in which including "GC transwomen" in the movement to push back against TRA overreach limits what can be discussed, shapes the discussions

Yes. Note how there was quite a heated discussion here as to what the cartoon meant. As soon as a male says "but I think it refers to me and that's upsetting" that discussion would get really awkward.

I wonder if men have any concept as to how often women feel uncomfortable or upset around men? I am fed up of us having to be so polite the whole time.

Ha, maybe! Not sure if I am unable to accurately describe this phenomenon due to Mumsnet rules but I do think it’s possible to realise gender/transgenderism is all a load of bollocks after you’ve transitioned. Lots of the female detransitioners are reporting that it was only reaching a point of success in their transitions (actually passing for male) that kickstarted their journey back to reidentifying as female.

I definitely don’t believe that any male belongs in a female space or service or role. There must be some post transition male people that agree with that?

Not that it matters, because this isn’t about them anyway.

You're thinking of people like Carey who wrote the (excellent) Ice Balls essay and who's written other good stuff since? Not sure how she'd self describe at this point.

Maybe a transcendinggenderer?

I wonder if men have any concept as to how often women feel uncomfortable or upset around men? I am fed up of us having to be so polite the whole time.

They do if they know me IRL! Being serious though, it's always been interesting to see how much of a shock that is to some men, which men in particular it's a shock to, and the ways in which that interacts with their idea of what a feminist should be like.

The majority of women won't feel comfortable telling anyone male that they're wrong and that it's not about them anyway, at least not until relatively far along on their feminist journey, which is why the inclusion of even one or two "nice" males in feminist spaces stifles discussion and limits the consciousness raising that can be achieved. I think some people who haven't seen this in action are thinking that this mostly works via angry threats and other overt attempts to bully women into submission, but in fact it more often manifests as emotional manipulation and demands to have the male's upset feelings centered as if they were a little boy and every woman in the room was their mum. The threats and overt anger tend not to surface until/unless the more covert manipulation has failed.

I dont understand why I, as a woman am supposed to feel threatened by some of the most oppressed people in any society.

1. Evidence please for the "most oppressed" assertion, because all I'm seeing is people bending over backwards to give trans people privileges that rest of us lack, like rewriting history by issuing altered birth and degree certificates when the rest of us have to show our original certificates and a marriage cert or deed poll, and granting access to use facilities of the opposite sex when the rest of us may not do this. Transwomen are less likely be murdered than women and non-transitioning males.
2. Anyone with a penis, regardless of gender identity, can rape a person with a vulva, regardless of gender identity, and leave that bevulvaed person pregnant. So those of us who were born with vulvas have every right to fear those born with penises aka rape weapons. Transwomen never have to fear rape-induced pregnancy and they know this from day one, in this respect they indisputably have privilege over those of us born with vulvas; bevulvaed people can fear pregnancy even when infertile if they don't know that they're infertile.

I’m aware that some detransitioners do not find being told they were never trans to be accurate or useful. Also, there are some people who speak out about the lie of transition without actually detransitioning because they feel stuck in their altered body or because they don’t want to put their families back through it again or because they find a halfway space to occupy where they keep their trans name but stop identifying as anything. It’s complicated but you can have a transed body without having a trans identity.

Anyway, of the people who occupy these liminal spaces, it’s only the female ones that feminism need be concerned about.
I’m scared there are going to be lots of them though.

I’m scared there are going to be lots of them though.

I suspect that there will be hundreds just in the UK, which is why I want to hold the door open for them in terms of allowing for mistakes to be made and minds to be changed.

Males of any identity otoh are not really feminism's concern other than in situations where what they demand is a threat to our safety, privacy, etc.

Formerly transgender, gender non conforming people?

(Unless the male in question is your child, in which case obviously you will be concerned about their welfare, but will hopefully still understand that they don't belong in women's spaces.)

It seems likely many might embrace a 'non-binary' identity.

It seems likely many might embrace a 'non-binary' identity.

Which of course is the reverse of being "gender critical".

Growing numbers of people who identify as 'non-binary' will also have significant implications for attempts to reassert sex-based Safeguarding.