Cartoon in the Morning Star

[Cwenthryth]

Kristina Harrison (prominent gender. critical transwoman, WPUK supporter) just posted this on Twitter - apparently it was published in the Morning Star.

KH wrote “This cartoon appeared in The Morning Star earlier this week @MStarOnline It is a horrific, generalised demonisation of trans people which does not belong in a civilised society, let alone a socialist newspaper. I condemn it utterly. Trans people & progressive opponents of identity politics are owed an unequivocal apology, an explanation & reassurance about what action is being taken to ensure that the line between fierce but legitimate argument and bigotry is never crossed again. Totally unacceptable. (not posting a direct link as I don’t want to facilitate any pile on against Kristina, clearly this is a sensitive personal issue for a transwoman).

Comments are supportive of KH so far. I thought it’d be a good topic for discussion here - does this ‘demonise trans people’ or does it baldly illustrate safeguarding concerns with self-ID? Is it different from the popular/accepted(?) ‘Fox identifying into the henhouse’ analogy? Hopefully we can keep things civil and respectful with no personal criticisms of Kristina.

My thought is that this is really a bigger problem about the way the political and social climate is operating these days. Cartoons like this are making generalisations, they have to, and they rely on the viewer being able to fill in the ideas. Even one that us really clever and nuanced is a blunt thing in a way.

I don't think many people now are very capable of interpreting these kinds of commentaries, much like they can't deal with satire or allegory. Younger people especially seem to have a reduced ability to think on that level, and reduced resilience in terms of not taking these things as personal attacks (or indeed, just sucking it up if they are attacks.)

It's the same reason many comedians now don't go to university campuses, and can't walk the edge, where the best comedy often resides, on political issues. Or anything they say in the context of comedy is taken to be a straight out declaration of their belief.

LGB Alliance condemned the cartoon too.

I don't think that pulling it means the Morning Star have fallen. I think it does mean that as always, male perspectives are being privileged over female perspectives, and that even men who are GC are sympathising more with the crocodile in that cartoon than with the newts. And that's demoralising but we need men onside so, whatever. Useful reminder of the limits of male allies.

It isn’t clear that it’s about a predatory man rather than a genuine trans woman. I can see how it’s upsetting to trans people

The crocodile is saying 'Don't worry your pretty little heads. I'm transitioning as a newt'.

Why would that be about trans people? Do they say things like that?

It isn’t clear that it’s about a predatory man rather than a genuine trans woman.

Isn’t that partly the point? That there is no way to tell the difference?

Is satire about predators using SelfID to prey on women and children allowed at all? Morning Star should keep trying until we see what "acceptible" looks like.

Or even "acceptable".

Tbh the cartoon has probably had a much bigger impact because of all this complaining and forced apology, we wouldn’t be having this discussion here or the one I’m having on Twitter if it had just been allowed to lie, most of the people offended would never have seen it. It’s all sunlight at the end of the day. Having the cartoon retracted just adds to the impression of seeking to silence women’s voices (unless they toe the ever-shifting party line).

Of course it’s offensive. It isn’t clear that it’s about a predatory man rather than a genuine trans woman. I can see how it’s upsetting to trans people

Its about a much larger predator self identifying into a space where they do not share the characteristics of the more vulnerable group.

It could be that there is a sex based difference, an age based difference or a species based difference.

Safeguarding separates a significantly more vulnerable group to provide protection.

The key is in the use of the word ‘transitioning’ rather than ‘identifying’. It’s handed ammunition to those minded to jump on any satirical depiction of women facing invasion of their spaces. And however much of an ally they profess to be, some people are never going to admit they are more crocodile than newt.

It's another straw in a veering wind. I don't condone but I do understand.

The key is in the use of the word ‘transitioning’ rather than ‘identifying’. It’s handed ammunition to those minded to jump on any satirical depiction of women facing invasion of their spaces.

Because those so offended by this cartoon think that predators seeking to exploit self id to gain access to girls or vulnerable women won't be using the language of transition?

I'm more offended by the large loopholes in sex self-id policies in place now which have & are putting girls & women at risk.

Of course they will use that language and the complainers know that. But those complainers will also be able to whinge about being depicted as scary and threatening, when they dispute this is the case in the face of all the evidence.
‘Identifying as’ would have given more scope for replying well, it’s plainly not you we’re talking about, silly and brushing off the criticism.

I’m not saying the language used is wrong. Just that ‘transitioning’ hits right at the heart of what transwomen reckon they are actually doing - becoming something biologically other to what they are.

And yes, I am more offended by the erosion of safe spaces and rights than a cartoon, obviously.

Dr Jessica Taylor:
'Let’s talk about sex… and gender ideology'

(extract)
"As someone who works heavily in the abuse and grooming of children, I also tried to speak out about the potential for sex offenders to groom trans kids online a couple of years ago. Instead of anyone taking that safeguarding risk seriously, I was subjected to a number of vexatious complaints. Thankfully, I wasn’t merely making these cases up as they claimed and it was easy to back up. Complaints were not upheld and I was okay.

However, the cases were real. Social workers were holding UK cases in which kids who identified as trans were going online, seeking support and being groomed by sex offenders who were sexually exploiting and abusing them. In all of the cases I was made aware of, the abusers were men who identified as transwomen.

I can’t go into too much detail because the cases are so specific, but they included the abduction of a trans child who met transwomen online in a support group. The transwomen groomed the child to believe their parents hated them and would never accept them, convinced them their parents were transphobes and then trafficked the child hundreds of miles where they raped them and kept them there for days.

Another case of a trans child who was groomed on the internet by older transwomen was being given wigs, make up and money for images and videos of sexual acts.

When I tried to talk about this, I was immediately shut down and accused of making up these real cases. The reality here is that males make up 97% of all sex offenders. Therefore, it is more likely that transwomen (males) will sexually offend against children than transmen (females) would. There is no evidence to suggest that males who identify as women offend in any different ways to males who do not identify as a different gender.

Sex offenders can be anyone, this includes trans people. This might make everyone uncomfortable but it’s true. People accused me of using the same old argument as ‘gay men are paedophiles’. However, I was talking about real cases held in the UK – and I was talking about them for a reason.

My reason was that in both of those cases, the social workers were being limited as to what they could and couldn’t say or do. This was because they were being told by authorities that there were fears about being seen as ‘transphobic’ if they spoke about or reported on cases where transwomen had been grooming trans kids online.

It reminded me very much of the way we all gingerly tip toed around Pakistani sex offenders abusing children because the police claimed they didn’t want to be seen as ‘racist’.

Just like most Pakistani men are not sex offenders, most trans people are not sex offenders. But it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be talking about these cases. In fact, the only common denominator in sex offending and domestic abuse is male offenders. Biological sex is the underpinning factor. Maleness. That’s why we call it male violence." (continues)

victimfocus.wordpress.com/2020/02/23/lets-talk-about-sex-and-gender-ideology/

Tbh the cartoon has probably had a much bigger impact because of all this complaining and forced apology.

Well indeed. How many people read the Morning Star as a rule?

There's a whole bunch of people getting angry and offended because someone has shown them a cartoon that they would never under normal circumstances have seen. It's almost as if they're seeking to be offended. Heaven forbid.

Private Eye article on the Guardian's ressuming of using 'sex observed at birth' & styleguide definition of 'cisgender' concludes:

"Some, er, cis women, at the paper are still simmering. "Look at this bollocks" says one. "There are ructions coming in Socialist Gilead..... "

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3830652-Private-Eye-spots-Guardian-now-using-sex-observed-at-birth-when-describing-cis-people#prettyPhoto/0/

It's a newt pond.
Not a crocodile pond.
There is a crocodile pond, just put of sight in the cartoon.
Any crocodile who intends to enter the newt pond has no respect for newts.
Regardless of whether it got a certificate granted by some other crocodiles to enter.
Regardless of whether it genuinely believes it's a newt inside.
Regardless of whether it's a bad crocodile, or a saintly crocodile that has just saved the planet and solved world hunger.
The bottom line is:
Crocodiles have no place in newt ponds, for ANY reason. No crocodile is an exception.

Decent crocodiles acknowledge that newts get to say no to them.
Any crocodile offended by newts demanding newt-only spaces, is probably not as decent as they like to tell themselves.

Keep out, crocodiles. You're not newts. You can't become newts. None of you are special newts. You're crocodiles. All of you. Always. Even the vegetarian crocodiles. You may be harmless crocodiles, but you're Just Not Newts.

So please, respect newts and leave them be. And tell the other crocodiles to keep out whilst you're about it.

I boldly went to Pink News (www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/02/23/morning-star-trans-political-cartoon-labour-party-pledge/) and wrote the first and only comment: "Stop getting your knickers in a twist. This cartoon is funny". Better than the po-faced condemnations from Pink News i.e. penis news.

Purity bull crap

I believe the cartoon to be fully accurate on the status of Trans Self ID globally. That it offends Kristina & pals, that is of course down to Kristina and pals.

However the whole concept of Trans is based on fetishism of the female form and the subjugation of Women to act as a shield and semi validation of the fetish. A difference was posited between HSTrans & APG Trans ... there is no difference ... all Tranwomen are male ... all demand protection In female space ... none care a damn about how that may affect Women & Girls as long as they can pass ... to continue performing their character acting. Kiristina is a male living with a female ... the HS Trans is a trope for a Paraphillia that affects a small number of men. Whether clinical depression, delusion or any other mental health issue Women are expected to be the caring one's and I only ever see care from Trans ID Males when it doesn't impact on their play acting. Kristina, imho shows concern for medicalising children only so far as it doesn't impact on Kristina's right to invade female & children's safeguarded changing rooms, shelters, loos, etc. As a Mother to Girls, Kristina's feelings on the matter are no longer of interest to me and the safeguarding of children . I refuse to be a shield for any man.

That is bold, Scientist! I just took a look at that PN article - it’s not even proofread or spell checked (unless ‘dafe’ is a thing and people really think trans shouldn’t ‘exit’?). And it’s mostly just screenshots of tweets. Journalism at it’s finest, really gets to the nub of the issue

I’ve been engaging a little on Twitter - asking questions to try to understand, explaining my view. Been called a bigot (by someone who refuses to engage in the discussion other than crying ‘bigotry!’ - oh, the irony), and a Nazi (apparently, I can’t see that one, they blocked me - never interacted with them). It’s been interesting, I think I’ve held my own.

@Winniefred amazing post

I'n not sure I understand the offence. Surely all alligators who are also self-professed newt allies wouldn't dream of breaching newt boundaries? Surely they would condemn fellow alligators who think they can merely declare a 'transition' to newt and disrespect newt rights and safe spaces this way?

Yes, you'd think so, wouldn't you?