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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lgbt+ Labour husting live stream

128 replies

unwashedanddazed · 20/02/2020 20:00

The leadership candidates are about to speak at this event. Just watched the deputies and they all said the same thing from the same script.

Pink news are streaming and currently there's me and 56 others watching live online!

mobile.twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1gqxvEmVRBjJB

OP posts:
DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 21/02/2020 14:22

Tee hee. No wonder his eyes got so wide!

R0wantrees · 21/02/2020 14:56

The twitter comment inked by moofolk refers to Manchester feminist group, 'Make More Noise'

"These are the worried voices of women who have spent time with post surgical, de-transitioned women in their early 20s. Note the abuse, hate & yells of transphobia from an audience who turns on them."

Account of the MMN meeting by Liv Bridge for Feminist Current:

'Detransitioners are living proof the practices surrounding ‘trans kids’ need be questioned
Detransitioners are living proof that the practices surrounding “trans youth” need be questioned, yet their experiences are too often ignored.'
(extract)
On November 30th, 2019, over 200 attendees packed inside a secret location in the centre of Manchester to attend the first-ever forum of its kind. The sold-out event, “Detransition: The Elephant in the Room,” signified the official launch of the The Detransition Advocacy Network (TDAN), and was organized by local independent feminist collective, Make More Noise, and Charlie Evans, a detransitioner and a co-founder of TDAN.

The event consisted of two panels: the first featured medical experts discussing their expertise and insight into gender reassignment services, and the second was made up of desisting young women who have been ostracized in this new age of blind gender ideology acceptance. (continues)

It is worth noting the bravery that young women — all between the ages of 19 and 29 — exhibited as they recalled their most intimate surgeries and brutal insecurities. Later, on Twitter, Evans disclosed that, of the seven women on the panel, there were five mastectomies, two hysterectomies, two oophorectomies (the removal of ovaries), and 20 years of testosterone combined.

So, why have so many young women been compelled to undergo such brutal surgeries?

One detransitioner, who goes by the name “Satan Herself” on Twitter, said that transitioning was a way to evade lesbophobia and her “reality as a homosexual woman.” Living as a “transman” for five years, she had never even considered the possibility she harboured internalized homophobia, as she was so supportive of LGBT rights. Yet she knew no lesbians and was starved of representation of masculine women. She said she couldn’t envision growing up into an adult lesbian woman, and immersed herself in transgender theory, which seemed the ideal way to “fix herself.”

Another detransitioner, Ellie, said that, at 15 years old, she too couldn’t picture herself as a homosexual adult female, so began her lengthy four-year transition journey one year later, with a mastectomy.

Thomasin began identifying between “male and various non-binary identities” at 14 years old, only desisting from treatment in May. She said social media and the online world functioned as a kind of escape route, especially since she saw no lesbian positivity or representation online or in real life.

Nele, who identified as trans for two years, argued that people aren’t just “born transgender for a magical reason,” but that it is “put on you by society.” She claimed that the contemporary trans movement masquerades as progressive while “reinforcing gender stereotypes” — a position shared by Bell, who said accepting the concept of gender identity without criticism can legitimize “a form of caricatured gender stereotypes.” Bell feels the outcome of trans ideology is a “movement that actually acts against the support of lesbian and gay people.”

Many also explained that they had pre-existing body issues, some manifesting in life-threatening eating disorders, alongside gender dysphoria.

Despite almost dying from anorexia, “Satan Herself” said she never linked hating her female body to her eating disorder or gender dysphoria. She never connected the dots between her fear of living as a female and her fear of living at a normal weight, both of which caused her to be dismissive of her health.

“I often wonder how nobody realized that? No therapist I saw; no doctor I talked to about getting surgery; no one in my personal life,” she said to a tear-choked room. “I just wish someone would have been there to tell me not to get castrated at 21…

… Just what the hell are surgeons doing?” (continues)
www.feministcurrent.com/2020/01/09/detransitioners-are-living-proof-the-practices-surrounding-trans-kids-need-be-questioned/

unwashedanddazed · 21/02/2020 15:16

Keir Starmer knows full well what Helen Steel's views are. I've noticed she replies to any tweet he makes on the subject. She's always respectful but always forceful in defence of women and girls. No way he's been unaware and it must produce in him in some cognitive dissonance considering their history.

OP posts:
DJLippy · 21/02/2020 15:40

makemorenoise.libsyn.com/scr-extra-interview-with-helen-steel

For anyone interested here is some background on Helen Steel. Also includes her gender critical beliefs and her relationship to Kier Starmer

R0wantrees · 21/02/2020 16:28

Pink News
(extract)
The Wigan MP said that attempts to “shout her down” when talking about trans rights means she’ll amp up her support instead.

Nandy, 40, said she was targeted by a barrage of “hate and anger” as she was repeatedly heckled during a PinkNews LGBT+ Labour hustings in Manchester on February 20, supported by Diva magazine.

A small but loud group of protestors demanded the candidates “define a woman” after Nandy and fellow leadership hopeful Rebecca Long-Bailey signed pledges published by the Labour Campaign for Trans Rights.

The pledges commit them to expelling people with transphobic views from Labour.

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One person in the audience accused the candidates of not knowing “what the definition of woman is” and said “women’s voices are being shut down” in the leadership hopefuls’ support for the trans and non-binary community.

The second time she was heckled, Nandy said: “I signed the pledge precisely for this reason, because we have got to be better than this as a level of debate in this party.

“I will not stop no matter who tries to shout me down.” (continues)
www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/02/21/lisa-nandy-trans-rights-heckled-labour-leadership-hustings-lgb-alliance/

Justhadathought · 21/02/2020 16:30

Labour’s Lisa Nandy vows to ‘redouble her efforts’ standing up for trans rights after barrage of ‘hate and anger’ www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/02/21/lisa-nandy-trans-rights-heckled-labour-leadership-hustings-lgb-alliance/

Justhadathought · 21/02/2020 16:31

Sorry, link already posted.

R0wantrees · 21/02/2020 16:35

A small but loud group of protestors demanded the candidates “define a woman” after Nandy and fellow leadership hopeful Rebecca Long-Bailey signed pledges published by the Labour Campaign for Trans Rights.

The pledges commit them to expelling people with transphobic views from Labour.

Torr Robinson, chair & founding member of the Labour Campaign for Trans Rights, who created the pledge supported by the majority of Labour leadership candidates was a witness on R4's Moral Maze.

See threads for insight into Torr Robinson's position:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3827771-Moral-Maze-Radio-4-8pm-19-Feb-Transcript

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3826996-Moral-Maze-Radio-4-8pm-19-Feb-Transgender-Rights

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3826913-Moral-Maze-R4-19th-Feb-8pm

borntobequiet · 21/02/2020 16:37

It’s a version of the sunk costs fallacy, isn’t it? Nandy et al can’t back off now, they’ve invested too much in this nonsense. Quite apart from the fear that they might be feeling about the backlash if they recant.

LizzieSiddal · 21/02/2020 16:50

Well Lisa will never get anywhere near No 10, so she can double down as much as she likes.

GrumpyGran8 · 21/02/2020 18:10

This clearly wasn't a hustings in any conventional sense of the word
Damm right. An election hustings is supposed to be where the candidates get to outline their policies and answer questions from the audience. Heckling and tough questioning is more or less expected; it gives the candidates a chance to show how much they know about local issues, how they perform under stress, and how well they can handle disagreement.
As somebody said, this was no more than a chatshow, with the audience expected to do no more than applaud, laugh or chuckle in the right places.
"Name your favourite memory from Pride"!! Goddess give me strength....

WrathofFaeKlopp · 21/02/2020 18:29

Kier's story about his gay friend coming out to his parents and the father never spoke to him again. Sad blah, kicked out of the house blah blah, homeless blah, we need to be kinder blah blah blah.

Same for unmarried mothers, not so long ago then?
If, as a young person you are kicked out of your house, that is for the welfare state to step in and help with a better safety net and the family to consider the consequences.

Women don't need to be told to be kinder Ffs.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/02/2020 18:30

It’s a version of the sunk costs fallacy, isn’t it? Nandy et al can’t back off now, they’ve invested too much in this nonsense. Quite apart from the fear that they might be feeling about the backlash if they recant.

Yes, exactly.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/02/2020 18:31

Nandy, 40, said she was targeted by a barrage of “hate and anger”

Oh do get over yourself.

R0wantrees · 21/02/2020 18:45

Nandy, 40, said she was targeted by a barrage of “hate and anger”

That seems to better describe the way lesbians & other women concerned for women's sex-based rights & Safeguarding were treated at Labour's LGBT+ meeting in Manchester yesterday.

pombear · 21/02/2020 22:34

Bumping, cos this is the sort of thing that needs a star Star , not typing up a transcript (though thanks all!)

Helen Glitterball Awesome, as always.

moofolk · 21/02/2020 23:10

@R0wantrees @theflushedzebra

Here's another Make More Noise podcast with a Jungian analyst on the subject of girls transitioning. Well worth a listen, proper interesting.

makemorenoisemanc.wixsite.com/mysite/podcast-1/episode/225b9b8b/scr-extra-interview-with-lisa-marchiano

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 21/02/2020 23:14

Vaguely relevant but I just had a chat with a guy at a bar who said he was a labour member but didn’t like ‘terves’.

I said, ‘I’m a terf’. He said, ‘I don’t mean people like you, I mean right wing Christian fundamentalists’.

I said, ‘christian fundamentalists aren’t feminists tho... and besides just saying you don’t think a prisoner with a penis belongs in a female prison is enough to get you called a terf’

He said, ‘well, I think that’s fair enough. I play rugby but I don’t think I should be able to identify as a woman and play on a female team’

I said, ‘so, you are also a terf then’

And drank more Prosecco.

I also first bumped a woman on the way out and said ‘terf club’. She laughed.

People are definitely noticing the high price of tulips.

R0wantrees · 21/02/2020 23:14

Moo Thank you

Tanith · 21/02/2020 23:26

" The second time she was heckled, Nandy said: “I signed the pledge precisely for this reason, because we have got to be better than this as a level of debate in this party. "

This is hate, Lisa; this is intimidation:

womansplaceuk.org/2019/11/19/what-happened-at-brighton-wpuklab19/

I don't recall your condemnation. Did I miss it?

Avocadohips · 22/02/2020 08:31

I just want to add my voice to thank moo and anybody else who might have been there being an Awkward Woman. And to @DuLANGMondeFOREVER (I see what you did there!) And people who are willing to speak out. I'm still looking for opportunities - ive had a few disastrous attempts that maybe me me very nervous.

MrsSnippyPants · 22/02/2020 13:12

Just heard Lisa from Hackney on the Iain Dale show on LBC this morning, just before 11am, spelling out how bad SelfID is for women and girls and how she can no longer support Lisa Nandy because of her views.

Lisa's voice was shaking but she got a lot across in less than a minute.
Well done that woman Flowers. people are speaking out more and more every day.

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 22/02/2020 14:57

Every day more people are noticing the high price of tulips 🌷

Will seek out Lisa from Hackney’s comments but it’s getting harder and harder to keep up with everything.

DJLippy · 22/02/2020 16:04

makemorenoisemanc.wixsite.com/mysite/post/culture-war-breaks-out-at-labour-party-leadership-hustings

Here is an article which provides a better over view of proceedings on the night

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